The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement | Page 4 | TigerDroppings.com

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GumboPot
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


quote:

Had the South won we would have been in deeper shite down the road than anything reconstruction caused.


What does "deeper shit" mean? What specifically are you talking about?






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CarrolltonTiger
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


quote:

What does "deeper shit" mean? What specifically are you talking about?


A demographic nightmare of epic proportions.






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NC_Tigah
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


quote:

A comment on the restoration of civility isn't a comment on the destruction caused by the war. Yes, the American Civil War was far more destructive than the English Civil War, a different issue. But as I think Zach might say, "thanks for trying".


You're under the impression that when Union Troops put torch to farm and field, burned estates to the ground, shot livestock, pillaged homes, etc. it constituted "destruction caused by war".






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GumboPot
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


quote:

A demographic nightmare of epic proportions.


I'm always confused by this notion given the fact that slavery faded away in a mostly peaceful way in other western countries. In fact I could see where the technology and morality would have rued the day in the south and that would have lent itself to a much more peaceful and organic transition for freeing the salves. In other words it would have been grassroots freedom movement rather than a top down freedom movement. IMO the former is a more peaceful and easier path.






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constant cough
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


quote:

Name another Civil War where the victors allowed the defeated to honor their heroes, create monuments, holidays, name towns after them, where the winners restored the civil rights to the defeated put them on their courts and enter Congress, named federal property after them.



Yeah I guess it wasn't too bad if we just gloss over reconstitution.






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CarrolltonTiger
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


quote:

it constituted "destruction caused by war".


Yes, that was part of the war. The reconciliation came after the end of the war. Two different periods. Perhaps you are trying to discuss war crimes or the nature of the law of war in 1864.

If so apologize for starting a thread you can not follow.






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Tchefuncte Tiger
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


quote:

What about Vietnam? They seem pretty united considering there are still lots of people that fought in the war still alive.


The ones that are still alive are the ones who didn't flee the country, were re-educated, or weren't executed.






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NC_Tigah
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


quote:

Yes, that was part of the war.
bullshite!






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CarrolltonTiger
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


quote:

IMO the former is a more peaceful and easier path.


So you see an independent south that was say 65% Black being a successful political entity in the 20th century?

Interesting, some sort of Zimbabwe or South Africa only with racial harmony, good schools, no surplus of obsolete farm labor, unicorns and rainbows?






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GumboPot
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


quote:

So you see an independent south that was say 65% Black being a successful political entity in the 20th century?


What are you talking about? The entire south is/was not New Orleans proper.

quote:

Interesting, some sort of Zimbabwe or South Africa only with racial harmony, good schools, no surplus of obsolete farm labor, unicorns and rainbows?



So I suggest a better way and it goes from an easier path to freeing slaves in my mind to unicorn and rainbows in your mind.







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N.O. via West-Cal
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement



"I can't think of any conflict that remotely resembles this restoration of privileges and fraternity, particularly when you consider the carnage and loss involved."

I am trying to come up with something, but the best I can do is nominate the more-or-less maintenance of the English system after one of their struggles over rightful succession. These fights tend to blur in my memory, so I will have to defer to those better versed in English history, but could one of those conlicts be considered comparable?







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CarrolltonTiger
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


quote:

What are you talking about? The entire south is/was not New Orleans proper.


Look at the demographics of 1865, then consider there would be no out migration of blacks to the Union states, then consider there would be little influx of European immigration to the south becasue of its peculiar institution, consider the slave birth rate and the loss of white male population by 1865, now free the slaves and what do you think you have besides a demographic social disaster.

quote:

So I suggest a better way


You didn't suggest aything, but I would be interested in your suggestion of how this would have workled out if the south had won. Please share.






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GoBigOrange86
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


It's a shame Andrew Johnson was so hell-bent on punishment rather than reconciliation, as Lincoln was. How different things might have been if Lincoln had lived...





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GumboPot
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


quote:

You didn't suggest aything, but I would be interested in your suggestion of how this would have workled out if the south had won.


I consider the south winning, as the war never starting. If the war doesn't start you don't have 625,000 deaths and reconstruction to go through. Slavery would have died out in the south mostly due to technology and in some part morality. The war was not worth the deaths, property destruction, the elimination of towns forever, the raping, the KKK, the promotion of racial animosity, the corruption during reconstruction, etc. There is always a better path and our leaders on both sides could have chosen a better path.






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faxis
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


The war was horribly destructive but it was nothing compared to the effects of Reconstruction on the south. The whole ignorant racist hillbilly stereotype of the south sprang from that periods deprivations. When you rape and starve a region for thirty years you don't end up with an enlightened society.





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Poodlebrain
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


There have been several civil wars in Great Britain that have ended without wholesale slaughter of the defeated, and from which the vanquished were allowed to celebrate their heroes. Titles were retained and the defeated participated in Parliament.





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Tchefuncte Tiger
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re: The reconciliation of the US after our Civil War was a remarkable achievement


quote:

It's a shame Andrew Johnson was so hell-bent on punishment rather than reconciliation, as Lincoln was.


It wasn't Andrew Johnson; it was the Radical Republicans in Congress, namely Charles Sumner.






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