Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle | TigerDroppings.com

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Rittdog
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Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle



quote:

Wilt was big on stats. One time he called me up and said, 'You know, Harvey, Michael Jordan can't hit a shot beyond 15 feet?'

I said, 'How do you know that?'

He said to me, 'Don't you watch the games?'

I said, 'I don't watch stuff like that. How do you know?'

He said, 'I watch it.'

So, during the height of Michael's career, I got the play-by-play of the first 20 Bulls games and I checked the distance of every shot Jordan took during the season and sure enough, he was shooting 38 percent from 15 feet back. So, I did 20 more and came up with the same result. So then I said, if I did 40, I might as well do 82. Wilt’s appraisal was perfect. From 13 feet back (Jordan) was 37.8 percent.

Then Wilt said, 'Jordan doesn't take any shots from seven feet in, all of those shots are drives to the basket. He doesn't take five or six footers. He goes right to the hoop.'

I tried 20 more games and ended up looking at the entire season and got the same results. Wilt's analysis held up.

Wilt was a student of the game. People don't know that. He knew everything that was going on.

Another season, Wilt said that the refs never called any traveling violations on Jordan. Wilt was after Jordan for some reason. I checked the play by plays and Wilt was right. Jordan was called only for four traveling violations.

Whenever Wilt came out with a book, he always credited me with the stats. I'm referenced throughout his books."

Pat Riley said the NBA doesn’t keep field goal percentage right. They should separate the (two-point shots) from the (three-point shots). They separate the three’s, but overall they don’t separate the two’s. So one of the categories I keep is field goal percentage for two’s. Charles Barkley was the leader in the two-point category for years."

-Harvey Pollack





"For years now, I've said nothing but good things about Kareem, not one negative thing, and he's never said anything nice about me. I just don't think he's this great defensive center he's supposed to be. It's just unreal, look at all the guys dunking over him. I look back over my career and recall only a few times anyone dunked over me. I still remember the time Elgin Baylor did. I still lose sleep over it to this day. I particularly resent what Kareem said the other day in a newspaper article. He said the centers of today in the NBA are much better athletes than when I played. Well I disagree with him 100%. I don't think he knows what the hell he's talking about. I played against him for four years. Does he not consider himself a good athlete? I'm not here to discredit Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, I believe he's a great talent that has had too many subpar years defensively. I just want to set the record straight. There were some damn good centers when I played. What about Bill Russell? Does Kareem consider him a good athlete? What about Nate Thurmond? Or Willis Reed? Or Walt Bellamy?"

-1979



'"How many layups do you think there were in the last Laker game? Forty-eight. People will tell you guys shoot better now. No doubt they shoot a little better, but not like you'd think from looking at the percentages. Mike Cooper is shooting 59 percent. You want to bet some money he'd outshoot Jerry West? I'll bet my house against him (Cooper) on Dolph Schayes. I'll take Larry Costello and give you any Laker with the exception of Wilkes.

Players just get to the basket (layups) more. It ups their percentage. There's no defense inside. When I played, if the other team ran a fast break two or three times, the coach would assign a forward to break back on defense as soon as the ball went up. I never see a coach doing that now. There were no uncontested layups.

My last two or three years I shot 69 to 73 percent. You think I was a better shooter? No, the defenses got worse and I was able to dunk every damn ball I wanted to. It was easier to get there. When I played against guys like Johnny Kerr . . . He was 6-10 and couldn't jump, but I'll tell you, you didn't get to the basket on him."'

-1982



"It's a run up and down the court and dunk the ball game now. These are speed merchants and jumping fools. That's why their shooting percentages are going way up. I led the league 11 times in field goal percentage and my lifetime average was 54%. There are now five billion guys shooting over 54%. Can you imagine playing when your hands are so cold and the ball is as hard as a brick? I can remember going to Detroit and playing the old Detroit Arena and there's about 3000 people in this big old huge thing. Every time they opened the door, the wind blows through. I can vividly remember Paul Arizin blowing into his hands and the smoke was blowing out of his nose. Guys were shooting 37%, and these were great shooters. People look at that any say, 'Is that a basketball player or was he on a blind team?' They don't know how to put that into perspective."

-1985



"It's just not a really professional thing to do, accepting all those gifts. Rolls-Royce? Motorcycle? That's blasphemy. It is stupid to give Kareem a Rolls-Royce, which is what the Lakers did. Why not give a scholarship at UCLA in Kareem's name?"

-1991



"All that faking Hakeem does, if you're Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain or Nate Thurmond, that **** don't mean nothin'. You just don't leave your deer. You would see Robinson fall for every god-damn fake, and Hakeem would dip around or under him for an easy basket."

-1995



"The best team I ever saw was the 1967 Sixers. Everything today is geared for the offensive player. Open the middle so he can drive. You can't put your hand on a guy's back. Can you imagine me in the paint with only one guy on me and he can't put his hands on me and nobody's beside me? Michael Jordan is a bit older and he walks all the time, but the referees allow it. He's not going to come through dunking the basketball on Luke Jackson. He's going to get slammed to the floor. I'd like to see Wali Jones playing defense on him, driving him into me. I'd be more than happy to see that."

-1996



"He's 6'6, 196 lbs. Coming into our domain, the pivot, would not have been very wise of Michael. I don't think, I know he would have been crushed back then. During my time, if you did a 360 dunk you would either be on knocked on your arse or benched. It was called hot-dogging back then."

-1997



"I'm not a big fan of Michael Jordan's because he never led the league in field goal percentage. If you take the dunk out of his game, his percentage will be even lower."

-1997



"If Shaq has been chosen as the team leader then he need to do it more by example. He needs to get down the court and play defense instead of cherry picking by the basket for all those dunks. Too often the other team is on offense and Shaq is not even at half court. Everybody talks about his points when we should be looking closer at his rebounds and blocked shots and defense."

-1999









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Rittdog
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


But Alex Hannum, one of seven inductees into the Basketball Hall of Fame here last night and the only man to coach championships in both the NBA and ABA, said one of his clubs, the 1966-67 Sixers, was as good as any - even the fabled Olympic Dream Team. And supporting the claim was the focal point of that 68-win squad, Wilt Chamberlain.

"We compare with any team that's ever been put together", said Hannum, whose gang that season included Chet Walker, Hal Greer, Luke Jackson, Wali Jones and, of course, Chamberlain.

"When I say "we,' I mean the '66-67 team, and I mean that even to include the Dream Team."

Chamberlain, Hannum's sponsor at the induction, emphasized the team aspect of the group.

"I concur with Alex", Chamberlain said. "In order to really maximize any five players, they have to be a team. Because you have the five best players of a particular era out there on the floor, that didn't make them a team. So as a team, we would challenge any of the Dream Teams."

As for the Bulls, Wilt was skeptical noting, "It's hard to talk about how great Chicago is because they are just so far superior to anything they have faced. I would have loved to have had them in our era to see how they would have truly measured up."

-1998


"Wilt Chamberlain was a great player," O'Neal said, "Give him his respect. But Wilt Chamberlain can kiss my ass."

The former Lakers center, appearing on the show to promote his new book, said Bullets center Gheorge Muresan may have more to offer as a player than O'Neal.

"As they call fouls today," Chamberlain said, "Shaq gets away with what I consider murder. I mean, I would think when you dip your shoulder and run over the top of the guy, and the foul is called on the guy who's laying on the floor, you're getting away with something. So Shaq is allowed to score some points that maybe he wouldn't (otherwise) get."

"But if you made it a straight-up situation, and gave the same rules and regulations to Shaq that you give to Gheorge Muresan.... Muresan has a better touch around the basket, he can score more points."

- '97






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Rittdog
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


Funny to see Shaq and Jordan are the ones trolling the NBA today.

Great read.



TL, DR






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CocomoLSU
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


He makes some good points, and I love to hear from people like him who actually have some perspective, but some of it just comes off as jealous/envious bull shite (a la Jordan now).

And not even jealous like they're better than Wilt. Likely more just because he's not playing anymore and they were.






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RoyMcavoy
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


i read most of this and im still not sure what this thread is about.

Does this have something to do with MJ talkin about LJ?



This post was edited on 2/19 at 10:12 am


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SlowFlowPro
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


this is funny for the "old times were so much better" crowd, when somebody did it to their "old times" (the 80s)

the best part is how i'm pretty sure the 60s were even more fast break than the 80s, which are more fast break than today






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DownSouthCrawfish
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


good stuff





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CocomoLSU
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


quote:

this is funny for the "old times were so much better" crowd, when somebody did it to their "old times" (the 80s)

Exactly.

And don't get me wrong, that's what I expect them to say. I don't want Wilt to admit that Kareem or Jordan are awesome. I don't want Jordan to admit that Kobe or LBJ are awesome. That's part of what makes them great.






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Zamoro10
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


quote:

Can you imagine me in the paint with only one guy on me and he can't put his hands on me and nobody's beside me?


He's be like LeBron - but bigger and stronger...crazy...big ol Wilt driving thru the lane unimpeded like today's NBA.



This post was edited on 2/19 at 10:32 am


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Zamoro10
Member since Jul 2008
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


quote:

Too often the other team is on offense and Shaq is not even at half court.


As a Laker homer, it's funny b/c it's true...which is why Kobe over Shaq ala dispute was a no-brainer. Shaq was great, but has been mythologized a bit - because he was also a lazy fat-ass who sucked at the end of games when he was tired.






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lsuguy84
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


This is what kills me with the NBA today and why it will be sad when Kobe retires. It's the passing if another generation. Seems like guys today are too worried about goofing off and dressing like dorks and being flashy instead of being a student of the game. Seems like every generation says that though





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Mr. Wayne
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


quote:

because he was also a lazy fat-ass who sucked at the end of games when he was tired.


I was a Shaq homer and watched about 80% of his career games. (Loved that burned satellite card) Shaq was pure greatness until after his third title. Then he got fat and lazy.






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Matisyeezy
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


I think it's interesting to hear the Sixers team calling itself super great because they function so cohesively as a team when almost everything I've read about Wilt before that has called him a horrible teammate and a stathound.





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SlowFlowPro
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


quote:

because he was also a lazy fat-ass who sucked at the end of games when he was tired.

even with this, he was still a better player than kobe (when there was a debate)






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Palm Beach Tiger
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


quote:


even with this, he was still a better player than kobe (when there was a debate)


I just don't understand how anyone even questions this? Shaq was the big dog on the team when they won those 3 titles. Kobe was Robin and everyone knew it.






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WITNESS23
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


Did you find those yourself? Or was this from an article?

Either way, good read






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htran90
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


quote:

I just don't understand how anyone even questions this? Shaq was the big dog on the team when they won those 3 titles. Kobe was Robin and everyone knew it.



cept kobe. he will always believe he was batman






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Zamoro10
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


quote:

even with this, he was still a better player than kobe (when there was a debate)


Well that's true...but you felt Kobe had 6-8 more good years in him...I know Shaq obviously went on to win another title elsewhere but you felt he was coming to an end. His desire didn't seem to be there.






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Zach
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


quote:

"We compare with any team that's ever been put together", said Hannum, whose gang that season included Chet Walker, Hal Greer, Luke Jackson, Wali Jones and, of course, Chamberlain.


Don't forget Billy Cunningham. He and Walker were the starting forwards. Luke Jackson came off the bench to spell them as well as Wilt.

Another piece of trivia... Hal Greer was one of the top free throw shooters in the NBA and yet, he was the only player who Jump Shot his free throws. His explanation "When I shoot my free throws I'm also practicing my jump shot. When I shoot a jump shot I'm also practicing my free throws."






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Rittdog
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re: Oh the times they are a changing "Wilt on MJ, Kareem, Shaq" The Beginning Cycle


quote:


Don't forget Billy Cunningham. He and Walker were the starting forwards. Luke Jackson came off the bench to spell them as well as Wilt.

Another piece of trivia... Hal Greer was one of the top free throw shooters in the NBA and yet, he was the only player who Jump Shot his free throws. His explanation "When I shoot my free throws I'm also practicing my jump shot. When I shoot a jump shot I'm also practicing my free throws."


Damn. That team was loaded






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