The death of rock n roll | Page 3 | TigerDroppings.com

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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
94501 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


I think the rise of the internet had as much to do with the death of mainstream rock as anything. I also think the popularity of rap among non urban youth didn't help.





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Jonas
LSU Fan
Northshore
Member since Nov 2010
408 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:

I've pretty much moved on to alt. country. The stuff I hear now has similar quitar work to what I hear on Connells albums from long ago.


Never thought about that, but now that you say it....and have really liked both in different stages of my life. Nice comparison.






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H-Town Tiger
Toledo Fan
Member since Nov 2003
42628 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:

Unfortunately, as much of an iconoclastic genre as Grunge was, it by no means had the staying power to keep going, which left us with the Dark Ages of late 90's rock. Radio stations stopped playing Rock unless it was a mainstream sounding song. Which brings us to current rock.


I'm not exactly sure what you are getting at here. Hair metal was so over the top, it had really run its course. Grunge was mostly marketing term, that ironically seems to describe appearance first and foremost mostly for the Seattle bands. But the music has its roots in many other genre's. Nivrana was the first Grunge band to blow up, but they are really a punk band. Alice in Chains, especially their first record were metal. Soundgarden kind of metal, kind of hard rock. Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins and STP (the later 2 not from Seattle of course) were basically hard rock bands.

A big part of the appeal of grunge was the anti-rock star mentality of these bands. Maybe that is what you mean, since most seemed to purposely keep their bands from getting too big, but that wasn't limited to Grunge. Radiohead basically did the same thing. I think Radiohead and Pearl Jam could have become monster, stadium bands like U2 and Metallica if they wanted to but they opted not to. maybe if they had, it would have been better for rock, who knows. Most trends seem to run a course, they start off true, soften as they gain mainstream acceptance and then give way in the mainstream to the next trend, though most don't go away, they just go back underground so to speak.






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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
94501 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:


A big part of the appeal of grunge was the anti-rock star mentality of these bands.



Absolutely agree. Hair metal turned me off of mainstream hard rock for a while, and "grunge" resurrected it for me. I loathed hair metal for the most part, though a few songs were catchy and enjoyable.






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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
15767 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:

Absolutely agree. Hair metal turned me off of mainstream hard rock for a while, and "grunge" resurrected it for me. I loathed hair metal for the most part, though a few songs were catchy and enjoyable
Spinal Tap was supposed to be a parody of rock bands and rock stars, but it turned out to be less outrageous than real life. The excesses of the bands and artists became such a joke that nobody took them seriously. They attracted no new fans and eventually just became tiresome to their longtime fans who lost interest.






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alajones
LSU Fan
Hell
Member since Oct 2005
22864 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:

I'm not exactly sure what you are getting at here.
Mainly that hair bands were the peak of Rock popularity. In the late 80's and early 90's 80% of the new songs or videos were hair bands. Like them or not, that was the peak of popularity of rock. Aerosmith (while not a hair band) really had the last good album form this generation with Get a Grip.

I'm going to call it Grunge because that is what everyone else was calling it back then. When Grunge hit the scene, it killed hair bands. But between drugs, suicides, bands not having enough staying power past their first couple of albums, they had kind of petered out by 96 or so.

This left a vacuum in rock in the late 90's. Barenaked Ladies, Fastball, Matchbox 20, Ben Folds Five were all considered Alternative Rock. While they played good music, they certainly weren't Guns and Roses or Stone Temple Pilots.

It wasn't until 2000-2001 when rock really took of again with bands like System of a Down, Godsmack and I'm going to say it...Nickelback.

However, rock in the 2000's will never reach the mass popularity that it was in the late 80's/early 90's.







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AlxTgr
LSU Fan
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
36544 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:

I've pretty much moved on to alt. country. The stuff I hear now has similar quitar work to what I hear on Connells albums from long ago.




Never thought about that, but now that you say it....and have really liked both in different stages of my life. Nice comparison.


And with that, I now have the intro to Get A Gun stuck in my head. Not a bad thing BTW.






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Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
44342 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:

I'm going to call it Grunge because that is what everyone else was calling it back then. When Grunge hit the scene, it killed hair bands. But between drugs, suicides, bands not having enough staying power past their first couple of albums, they had kind of petered out by 96 or so.

I will say it's amazing how unstable each of the Seattle bands were. All of them spectacularly flamed out except Pearl Jam, which settled into a niche band and maybe Mudhoney, who was never all that popular to begin with.

But hair metal was gonna die regardless because it was so lazy and formulaic. It really was like the death throes of the Roman Empire. Rock took its market advantage and totally squandered it, while everyone else was doing exciting stuff. And the rock bands who were pushing boundaries did it steadfastly outside of the mainstream. Rock, in the 80s, became a nostalgia show. Which is why it had to die (at least in that form).

I do think a big problem in the late 90s were the bands which came in the wake of grunge, to use another line from a different Hyden article, took all of the worst things from grunge (self-seriousness, hunger dunger dang sound) and got rid of the rest. Then some marketing exec came up with combining rap and metal and... well, here we are. It took about five years to kill "grunge". There's also the fact that none of the grunge bands were the least bit interested in advancing "grunge" as a genre.

Limp Bizkit did as much to kill mainstream rock as Nickelback. Also, from reading the oral history of grunge (fun book, BTW), I got the impression that a person's happiness was inversely proportional to how successful their band was commercially (PJ excepted). The bands were happier being underground and obscure, and took every opportunity to go back to obscurity.






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alajones
LSU Fan
Hell
Member since Oct 2005
22864 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


They were definitely an odd bunch.

I think you are wrong about Nickelback though. As much as they are hated by rock fans, they and Linkin Park have done more to keep rock in the mainstream than any other band in the 00's. I'm not saying I love them and I'm not trying to quantify how "good" they are, but 60 million albums speaks for itself.






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H-Town Tiger
Toledo Fan
Member since Nov 2003
42628 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:

Mainly that hair bands were the peak of Rock popularity. In the late 80's and early 90's 80% of the new songs or videos were hair bands. Like them or not, that was the peak of popularity of rock.


OK, I don't really agree with that. I think the peak of rock popularity was the late 70's early 80's. AOR (Album Orented Rock) was the dominant radio format. Most cities had 2 or 3 AOR stations. The old TV show WKRP in Cincinnati was about an AOR station. That was the peak IMHO. By the mid to late 80's when hair metal was peaking, rock was already declining. Grunge brought life back to rock. I'd also argue Guns and Roses helped kill hair metal as much as Nirvana.

quote:

But between drugs, suicides, bands not having enough staying power past their first couple of albums, they had kind of petered out by 96 or so. This left a vacuum in rock in the late 90's.


If you really look at it, most muscial trends like that burn out in about 5-7 years. Relatively few bands have staying power beyond a couple of albums. How many Hair Metal bands stuck around longer than an album or 2?

Another turning point i think was Dr Dre's The Chronic which blew up in 1993 at the height of Grunge. The videos got a lot of play on MTV and really took rap to the mainstream (ie suburban white kids). Those kids 10 years earlier were buying metal.






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Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
44342 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:

I'd also argue Guns and Roses helped kill hair metal as much as Nirvana.

Absolutely agree. Axl even championed Nirvana, and they treated him with nothing but contempt. And then Axl decided he wanted to be Elton John.






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JohnZeroQ
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Pelicans of Lafourche
Member since Jan 2012
4849 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:

Popular rock bands have relied on support networks made up of canny managers, powerful record labels, and influential radio stations. Creatively, they've sought outside help in the form of record producers and professional songwriters who are highly experienced in creating hits. In the '80s and '90s, music video directors helped bands reach millions of people outside their normal fan bases. Over time, this network — particularly radio — has eroded, and mainstream rock bands have suffered as a result.

- Where are all the music videos?(this had a huge effect on pushing artist)
-Popular music being ''created'' for mainstream hits($$$$$$$)
-''created mainstream'' hits being forced fed to us threw FM radio and other advertising( makes people think rock and roll is garbage)

People like most of us posting will find the music we want for our own reasons. Most people think that what they hear is the new coolest hippest music around. And cause it gets played on FM and commercials and on their tv shows that this is the be all end all of good music. Its like a slow massive paradigm shift in people's(collective) ear for music. An argument can be made that rock and roll is being killed.
if only because real original acts are pushed aside for the flavor of the time. And there seems to be one kind of flavor being pushed(indie-post alt-rock)

I just don't know if I would argue it is dying when there are very much many great bands out there. EDM certainly has the ears of people too, helping dilute peoples interest in rock n roll.



Shit, its all about the $$$ man.






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alajones
LSU Fan
Hell
Member since Oct 2005
22864 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:

Another turning point i think was Dr Dre's The Chronic which blew up in 1993 at the height of Grunge. The videos got a lot of play on MTV and really took rap to the mainstream (ie suburban white kids). Those kids 10 years earlier were buying metal.
No question about this. Dr. Dre did as much for Rap as Elvis did for Rock.

quote:

I think the peak of rock popularity was the late 70's early 80's
I guess since I was a youngster I don't recall this so much. I remeber british new wave and pop dominating in the early to mid 80's. But Def Leppard, Poison, Tesla, Extreme, Motley Crue and the like dominating for 87-91.






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AlxTgr
LSU Fan
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
36544 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:

But Def Leppard, Poison, Tesla, Extreme, Motley Crue and the like dominating for 87-91.
I thank them all for forcing me to find music I actually like.






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H-Town Tiger
Toledo Fan
Member since Nov 2003
42628 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:

I don't recall this so much. I remeber british new wave and pop dominating in the early to mid 80's. But Def Leppard, Poison, Tesla, Extreme, Motley Crue and the like dominating for 87-91.


Maybe I'm using a more expansive definition of rock than you, because I include bands like Boston, REO ect, not just metal or hard rock. But in the late 70's early 80's a lot of rock wasn't necessarily on the Billboard singles or album charts, but that's because their formula for calculating those was horrible. Just as for example, AC/DC's You Shock Me All Night Long barely cracked the top 40, but trust me in 1981, it was everywhere. Or take a band like Baloo's favorite, Rush. They didn't really have top 40 hits, Tom Sawyer may have cracked the top 40, but that's about it. but they sold out arena's across the country, sometimes for 2-3 nights at places like the Summitt in Houston. Van Halen is another exmple. Mainstays on AOR for years, but didn't have a hit song until the abortion known as Jump.






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Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
44342 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


80s mainstream rock in a nutshell: I can listen to some 1960s refugee cranking out some cynical synthed out abomination OR shrill hair metal.

Yeah, I'm with Alx. It taught me to find something I liked. Because that wasn't it.






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alajones
LSU Fan
Hell
Member since Oct 2005
22864 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


quote:

But in the late 70's early 80's a lot of rock wasn't necessarily on the Billboard singles or album charts
Well that's what I mean by popularity. Top 40 and MTV. When I read that article I thought that was what the author was getting at.


That's pretty much all I listened to until I was 14 or so and started to really form my own likes and dislikes.

It just so happened that hair bands were dominating the charts from when I was 11 to about 15.

But I get what you are saying about AC/DC and other bands. There is a reason Back in Black goes platinum every 5 years or so. So a shite load of people knew about them, but they weren't getting the airplay representative to the size of followers they had.


And stop dissing Def Leppard. Don't even try and front like you weren't rocking out to Pyromania and Hysteria with your mullett.






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Flair Chops
Miami (FL) Fan
boone county mating call
Member since Nov 2010
33577 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


I DON'T NEED YOUR PHOTOGRAPH





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AlxTgr
LSU Fan
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
36544 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


I wore the sleeveless Union Jack shirt with Sunbritches to the arcade.





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TheFolker
Kentucky Fan
Member since Aug 2011
3259 posts

re: The death of rock n roll


I thought I was cool because I had the same shirt that Joe wore in the Women video. There are very few rock bands around today that make their listeners feel "cool" for listening to them. You might feel good that you identify with somebody who is different but I don't know of anybody that makes you feel like the coolest fricker on the planet just for pushing play like rock used to.





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