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Posted on 2/13/13 at 12:58 pm to nighttrain30
So we have Jordan/Bunkley/Hicks on the front line - not bad
We have ?/Lofton/Hawthorne/Wilson - a little weak on the outside (use #15 pick)
We have Greer/Robinson/Harper/Jenkins - even if you don't like Harper, he will be a stud in the new scheme (run stopper/blitzer)
If we can pick up some OLB in free agency or the draft, I could see this defense easily jumping into the middle of the pack next year.
We have ?/Lofton/Hawthorne/Wilson - a little weak on the outside (use #15 pick)
We have Greer/Robinson/Harper/Jenkins - even if you don't like Harper, he will be a stud in the new scheme (run stopper/blitzer)
If we can pick up some OLB in free agency or the draft, I could see this defense easily jumping into the middle of the pack next year.
Posted on 2/13/13 at 7:01 pm to TIGERSby10
Junior is a 260 pound speed pass rushing DE. He is exactly the kind of guy everyone tries to convert to 3-4 OLB when these guys come out of college. He is the best pass rusher on the team and he has more potential as a pass rusher in the new defense than Wilson in my opinion. It still baffles me that people continue to overlook him and assume he needs to be upgraded.
And let's count the OP as another person misinformed on Bunkley. I would say Hicks is more like a Richard Seymour type than Ngata. Ngata is like 360 pounds and isn't the type of pass rusher Hicks could potentially be from that spot.
And let's count the OP as another person misinformed on Bunkley. I would say Hicks is more like a Richard Seymour type than Ngata. Ngata is like 360 pounds and isn't the type of pass rusher Hicks could potentially be from that spot.
Posted on 2/13/13 at 10:14 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
Junior is a 260 pound speed pass rushing DE. He is exactly the kind of guy everyone tries to convert to 3-4 OL
I think Galette will have the pass rushing and run defending down pretty good. It's gonna be when he is inevitably tasked with pass coverage that I'm gonna be holding my breath.
Posted on 2/14/13 at 1:42 pm to monroesaintsfan
I understand that worry, but how often will he actually cover someone man to man? Plus, go and look at all of the top sack guys that are 3-4 OLB's and tell me how many of those guys are good in pass defense. Ware, Aldon Smith, Cameron Wake, Kruger, Suggs, Tamba Hali, Justin Houston. I wouldn't consider any of these guys good pass defenders. They are out there for one reason.
Putting pressure on the qb is the most important part of playing defense these days. If Junior can do that like he has been, with more playing time, I think I can overlook him not being good in pass coverage. He will be dropping back into zone's probably.
Putting pressure on the qb is the most important part of playing defense these days. If Junior can do that like he has been, with more playing time, I think I can overlook him not being good in pass coverage. He will be dropping back into zone's probably.
Posted on 2/14/13 at 3:47 pm to nighttrain30
Bunkley is the most interesting part. He's not a penetrator, so the Ratliff comparison isn't great.
He can do one thing better than anybody else in the league, sans Wilfork. He can maul the guy who lines up across from him. I think it'd be really interesting to see him slide to DE on obvious run situations.
He can do one thing better than anybody else in the league, sans Wilfork. He can maul the guy who lines up across from him. I think it'd be really interesting to see him slide to DE on obvious run situations.
Posted on 2/16/13 at 3:45 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
I understand that worry, but how often will he actually cover someone man to man?
The strongside OLB in a 3-4 has to cover quite a bit, especially the te. If Galette can't cover then Wilson would have to play there and that would take away from Wilson's pass rushing chances. Maybe Galette already has some coverage ability, if so, great. But if all he can do is rush the passer, it's really going to cut down on his scheme versatility and eventually teams will dictate putting him in coverage when he's on the field.
I'm not saying I think he has to be the next Sean Weatherspoon in coverage but he can't be totally inadequate either...if he is, it won't take long for teams to exploit that weakness.
This post was edited on 2/16/13 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 2/16/13 at 5:49 pm to monroesaintsfan
I listed quite a few of the top pass rushing 3-4 OLB's. Those guys are out there for one reason. Which of those guys are known for covering people?
Putting pressure on the qb and making him get rid of the ball quickly is the most important part of playing defense. If you have a guy who is really good at doing that, you live with him maybe not being so great in coverage. You find ways to help that guy out when he does drop back. Coverage is only as good as the pass rush lets it be anyway.
Putting pressure on the qb and making him get rid of the ball quickly is the most important part of playing defense. If you have a guy who is really good at doing that, you live with him maybe not being so great in coverage. You find ways to help that guy out when he does drop back. Coverage is only as good as the pass rush lets it be anyway.
Posted on 2/16/13 at 5:53 pm to landrywasbeast30
I'll agree with you to a point.
There becomes a time where all the pass rushing in the world isn't worth it when all they are doing is running it down your throat.
For all the good Long in St. Louis does, he will get pulverized in the run game.
There becomes a time where all the pass rushing in the world isn't worth it when all they are doing is running it down your throat.
For all the good Long in St. Louis does, he will get pulverized in the run game.
Posted on 2/16/13 at 7:11 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
Which of those guys are known for covering people?
That's kind of like arguing about the best pass blocking running backs and mentioning Chris Ivory's ypc average, don't you think? Better question for this argument. Which of them are known to be a liability in coverage? It's a simple fact that even the best pass rushing 3-4 olb's in the league do have to cover on occasion. Maybe Galette can cover enough to be effective. I hope so if he's gonna start.
Otherwise every team that plays the Saints will be scheming to exploit that weakness. And when I envision the makeup of this new alignment, I don't even see him as the best pass rushing option. I think Wison is going to be much better ....unless he's constantly having to take up the pass coverage slack from the other side.
I'm not saying I don't think Galette can be a valued piece to the new defense but I personally don't see him as the every down player that Wilson will be.
This post was edited on 2/16/13 at 7:48 pm
Posted on 2/16/13 at 10:13 pm to monroesaintsfan
The point is that those guys are out there for one reason. What they do or don't do in coverage never even comes up. Considering the fact that Shanle sucked in coverage and didn't have any other positive assets, how bad would Junior have to be for it to actually keep him off the field if he is getting to the qb. You are over thinking this. Pass rushing is much more important for that position than what you do in coverage.
Posted on 2/17/13 at 12:15 am to nighttrain30
quote:
4) M. Wilson- Weakside Outside Linebacker- His only professional highlights have come when he rushes the passer and he was moved to end last season. With his size and speed he could turn into a formidable pass rusher.
I know I'm in the minority but why not try him at ILB? I think his speed would be more of a nuiasance for an offense on running plays where as I think he would get mauled on running plays trying to hold the contain on the outside.
and I think he would be an effective blitzer form the inside on passing downs.
he was an inside backer in college.
I think maybe another reason we didn't see him get as much playing time last year was that he wasn't that effective at stopping the run as a DE.
Looking back, what would it have hurt to have him out there? Nobody else had a clue what was going on...
This post was edited on 2/17/13 at 12:18 am
Posted on 2/17/13 at 1:06 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
Pass rushing is much more important for that position than what you do in coverage.
Only on the weakside. The strongside olb will be in coverage more than he'll be rushing. And even the weakside backer will have to cover on occasion. If you think you can put a guy out there who's total game is rushing the qb and he's going to become an All-Pro you might be underthinking the situation.
What you are advocating is a one dimensional player. Galette was already that in the 4-3 under two defensive coordinators and he couldn't start then either. The problem then was he sucked against the run as a 4-3 de. But it would be hard to argue that he wasn't a better pure pass rusher than Smith the last two years. And how many times was it that he started ahead of Smith? You keep bringing up other players, so let me do that too. Look at Seattle's Bruce Irving. Best pure pass rusher on their team....and how many games did he start last year? Zero.
But once again, hopefully Galette can cover which is the point I was making when this back and forth started. If he can't, I believe you'll see him subbing in instead of starting.
Posted on 2/17/13 at 1:18 pm to monroesaintsfan
quote:
If you think you can put a guy out there who's total game is rushing the qb and he's going to become an All-Pro you might be underthinking the situation
Except for the fact that just about all of the top 3-4 pass rushing OLB's actually are one dimensional, which you keep ignoring. You sound like someone trying to show everyone how smart you are about 3-4 defenses without actually looking around the league to see what's really happening in these defenses.
Posted on 2/17/13 at 1:21 pm to landrywasbeast30
You two need to get avis.
Posted on 2/17/13 at 1:35 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
You sound like someone trying to show everyone how smart you are about 3-4 defenses
Excuse me, I didn't realize I was arguing this point with an NFL talent scout. What's the point of beating this dead horse about other players? Every one of those guys you keep harping about is tasked with also defending the run and on occasion....the pass.
By the way, this is an internet message board with people expressing opinions....just that, opinions. And not everybody is going to agree with yours. No experts here, including you or me.
This post was edited on 2/17/13 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 2/17/13 at 1:36 pm to Patrick O Rly
I'll try to find something with laundry in it lol. Wonder if there is a "Laundry Man" avi somewhere on the net.
Posted on 2/17/13 at 1:38 pm to monroesaintsfan
I'm not a scout. I'm just someone who looks around at all the top 3-4 pass rushing OLB's and understands that they are on the field for one reason, and it's not to cover people.
Posted on 2/17/13 at 1:47 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
I'm not a scout
Really???
Posted on 2/17/13 at 2:09 pm to monroesaintsfan
Figured I would clear that up for you since my brilliance and amazing football knowledge had you thinking I was a scout.
The most interesting part of this debate is how you continue to ignore my point that all of the top pass rushing 3-4 OLB's are only on the field to put pressure on the qb. That's what they do.
You say they have to cover "on occasion". Okay. I'm sure Junior can drop back on occasion without giving up a td every time he does. If he is getting to the qb the way he did in a part time role, he would have to be doing something horrible every time he dropped into coverage for it to be a problem. They can easily just drop him back into zones to protect him, which is probably what they will do anyway.
The most interesting part of this debate is how you continue to ignore my point that all of the top pass rushing 3-4 OLB's are only on the field to put pressure on the qb. That's what they do.
You say they have to cover "on occasion". Okay. I'm sure Junior can drop back on occasion without giving up a td every time he does. If he is getting to the qb the way he did in a part time role, he would have to be doing something horrible every time he dropped into coverage for it to be a problem. They can easily just drop him back into zones to protect him, which is probably what they will do anyway.
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