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Started By
Message
Saints Needs per PFF
Posted on 2/10/13 at 11:59 am
Posted on 2/10/13 at 11:59 am
Edge Rusher
fortunately for the Saints, they already have two players on the roster that look to be well suited to the role in Martez Wilson and Junior Galette (who happens to be a restricted free agent). The defense should actually improve just by getting the two onto the field more, as both have shown an ability to get to the quarterback in situational roles. Each player ranked in the Top 15 in Pass Rushing Productivity among 4-3 ends who played at least 25% of their teams snaps, with Galette coming in as the fourth-most productive rusher. Of course, it remains to be seen whether the two can make the transition from situational rushers to full-time players at OLB, particularly in the case of Galette, who’s been used more traditionally as a defensive end than Wilson. Therefore, finding another edge rusher remains one of the Saints’ top needs this offseason.
Safety
Malcolm Jenkins and Roman Harper finished as our two lowest-graded at the position. After leading the team in sacks in 2011, Harper transitioned to a deeper, more traditional safety role this season under Spagnuolo, which wasn’t the smartest move considering he’s shown little ability in coverage during his career. Jenkins, in his third season at the position, didn’t show much more in coverage and particularly struggled to finish plays — his 20 missed tackles were two short of the league-high, even though he missed the final three games.
It will be interesting to see how the two fit into the plans of whomever the team hires as defensive coordinator, but don’t be surprised if Harper becomes a cap casualty. Either way, the team definitely needs to look at upgrading a position that’s supposed to be the ‘safety-net’ of the defense, but when manned by Jenkins and Harper, sure doesn’t make you feel very safe.
more
They mention S Glover Quin as an affordable potential UFA acquisition. Any of you seeing the Texans more have a read on him?
fortunately for the Saints, they already have two players on the roster that look to be well suited to the role in Martez Wilson and Junior Galette (who happens to be a restricted free agent). The defense should actually improve just by getting the two onto the field more, as both have shown an ability to get to the quarterback in situational roles. Each player ranked in the Top 15 in Pass Rushing Productivity among 4-3 ends who played at least 25% of their teams snaps, with Galette coming in as the fourth-most productive rusher. Of course, it remains to be seen whether the two can make the transition from situational rushers to full-time players at OLB, particularly in the case of Galette, who’s been used more traditionally as a defensive end than Wilson. Therefore, finding another edge rusher remains one of the Saints’ top needs this offseason.
Safety
Malcolm Jenkins and Roman Harper finished as our two lowest-graded at the position. After leading the team in sacks in 2011, Harper transitioned to a deeper, more traditional safety role this season under Spagnuolo, which wasn’t the smartest move considering he’s shown little ability in coverage during his career. Jenkins, in his third season at the position, didn’t show much more in coverage and particularly struggled to finish plays — his 20 missed tackles were two short of the league-high, even though he missed the final three games.
It will be interesting to see how the two fit into the plans of whomever the team hires as defensive coordinator, but don’t be surprised if Harper becomes a cap casualty. Either way, the team definitely needs to look at upgrading a position that’s supposed to be the ‘safety-net’ of the defense, but when manned by Jenkins and Harper, sure doesn’t make you feel very safe.
more
They mention S Glover Quin as an affordable potential UFA acquisition. Any of you seeing the Texans more have a read on him?
3
Posted on 2/10/13 at 12:00 pm to blueslover
Glover Quinn is pretty good. Still young enough to get some tread out of him too.
If they could swing him and Victor Butler it would be a nice free agency season imo
If they could swing him and Victor Butler it would be a nice free agency season imo
Posted on 2/10/13 at 12:28 pm to HMTVBrian2
Maybe Corey White could start at safety, which is where many had him projected pre-draft. I know he's shown potential at corner but it might be a way to have him on the field all the time. Robinson and Greer would probably look a lot better if they had some legit cover help. Let Jenkins move back to nickel where he didn't suck.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 12:51 pm to monroesaintsfan
quote:
Maybe Corey White could start at safety
Doesn't have the size. He is a cover corner all the way. Turning a cornerback to a safety didn't work with Jenkins so I'd pass on that. We desperately need a guy who's natural position is Free safety. This secondary needs a ball hawking enforcer. It's a rare talent in the NFL these days.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 12:58 pm to blueslover
I think a rotation of Wilson, Galette, and a top 15 guy out of the draft would be incredible to have as an OLB corp
Posted on 2/10/13 at 1:00 pm to blueslover
quote:
Safety
Malcolm Jenkins and Roman Harper finished as our two lowest-graded at the position.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 1:41 pm to eyeran
So sick of seeing this as our last line of defense
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:01 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
I think a rotation of Wilson, Galette, and a top 15 guy out of the draft would be incredible to have as an OLB corp
witcha, I'd like one vet with some 3-4 experience though
a couple of threads looking at those right now
a Spencer or Kruger would be nice but don't look to likely with the current cap woes- unless some other big move is made. Like filling LT with Brown or a draftee and using LT money towards defense.
Shaun Phillips as an older guy and Victor Butler as younger are the ones I like as affordable additions.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:08 pm to Mouth
quote:
Doesn't have the size.
He might not be suited for the position at all but it wouldn't be because of size. He's bigger AND faster than Jenkins or Harper.
And plenty of corners have converted to safety through the years. The main reason I speculate about it is his pre-draft projections and the posibility of getting him on the field more, plus he's pretty physical. Bush and Abdul-Quddus didn't do that badly last year either. The D roster definitely needs upgrades but with no cap space, limited picks and a new scheme, they might have to do some major juggling with some of the pieces already there.
This post was edited on 2/10/13 at 2:24 pm
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:22 pm to monroesaintsfan
Jenkins is back for a last try on his rookie deal IMO. He's still not terribly expensive and with the cap situation cannot afford to replace him with any higher cost better performer.
Harper we'll see. With his numbers he could be cut outright. Most likely IMO is a restructure tho. If cut outright with no free agents brought in then safety does increase hugely as a draft need.
Harper we'll see. With his numbers he could be cut outright. Most likely IMO is a restructure tho. If cut outright with no free agents brought in then safety does increase hugely as a draft need.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:26 pm to blueslover
I think he'll restructure because the scheme they're moving him into really utilizes what he's capable of doing well. He's perfect for a 46 hybrid.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:28 pm to blueslover
quote:
Harper we'll see.
I think this is just about Harper/Jenkins last shot, if it already hasnt been. Harper exceeded in 2011 staying in the box and in blitzing situations. Spags used him as LB pretty often which I liked, but he was just so absolutely lost in coverage.
Would still like to nab a S in either the 3rd or 4th
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:29 pm to blueslover
quote:
Harper we'll see
What about Bush, do you think he's ready for prime time? When I'm conjecturing about White in a switch, I'm really thinking more of a fs type.
I'm not really as down on Harper as a lot of people, I just hate his cap numbers...this year and next.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:32 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
Would still like to nab a S in either the 3rd or 4th
on board, there's some very ripe potential pickings in that range:
Shawn Williams, Cyprien, Phillip Thomas, and Rambo
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:43 pm to Mouth
quote:
Doesn't have the size. He is a cover corner all the way. Turning a cornerback to a safety didn't work with Jenkins so I'd pass on that. We desperately need a guy who's natural position is Free safety. This secondary needs a ball hawking enforcer. It's a rare talent in the NFL these days.
6'1, 205 pounds is too small to play safety? He might be bigger than Jenkins. The guy was a safety in college and all projections had him playing safety in the NFL. It would probably be best for his career if he were moved back to safety, which is his natural position.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:45 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
I think a rotation of Wilson, Galette, and a top 15 guy out of the draft would be incredible to have as an OLB corp
Why would you waste a high pick on a rotation guy at a position where you already have 2 young guys who may be better than the guy you are using that high pick on? In that situation, isn't a cheap vet a better option?
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:57 pm to blueslover
quote:I don't know what there's left to see from him. They've spent 7 years having to hide him on defense, that has to get tiring. He was slow and bad in coverage from day 1, then he tore his acl. Now he's overpaid, on the wrong side of 30, and not getting any better.
Harper we'll see. With his numbers he could be cut outright. Most likely IMO is a restructure tho. If cut outright with no free agents brought in then safety does increase hugely as a draft need.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:11 pm to eyeran
quote:
I don't know what there's left to see from him
no, he is well defined as a player. I meant we'll see if they cut him outright or do a new deal. Right now it would seem insane to go forward with him counting $15mil against the cap the next two years.
quote:
Why would you waste a high pick on a rotation guy at a position where you already have 2 young guys who may be better than the guy you are using that high pick on? In that situation, isn't a cheap vet a better option?
1. you could if you rated him a hands down flat out baller that immediately would be better than what you have. "who may be" is a lotta unknown and inexperience to base your whole defense on.
2. an impact vet like Spencer will be likely beyond the Saints budget IMO. Not as high profile UFA like Shaun Phillips at 32 would still cost twice or more what a 1st Rder will. 10X more than a 3rd Rder. There's not much "cheap" when it comes to vets.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:28 pm to blueslover
I agree with your logic. My point is that there will not be anyone at 15 as an OLB who is a flat out baller. But that's just my opinion.
You seem to be arguing against your own Shaun Phillips debate now. You are the one who I've seen talking most about getting him, which I agree with. Are you just disagreeing with me for the hell of it?lol And I already agreed with you on using a later pick on that position. I'm fine with that. I never said the team can't use another guy in that rotation.
My entire point is that there are too many other needs on this team that it doesn't really make sense to use that first round pick on a rotation guy when we have two 24 year old guys that are a big part of the reason the team is switching to a 3-4, to get them on the field.
You seem to be arguing against your own Shaun Phillips debate now. You are the one who I've seen talking most about getting him, which I agree with. Are you just disagreeing with me for the hell of it?lol And I already agreed with you on using a later pick on that position. I'm fine with that. I never said the team can't use another guy in that rotation.
My entire point is that there are too many other needs on this team that it doesn't really make sense to use that first round pick on a rotation guy when we have two 24 year old guys that are a big part of the reason the team is switching to a 3-4, to get them on the field.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:46 pm to landrywasbeast30
there can be some validity to the idea of going forward with Galette/Wilson as the primary answers for OLB. What I don't get from ya is how much risk is associated with such a decision. As vital as the role is a 3-4 scheme, to write in two guys who have never done that before at any level, that seems presumptuous and dangerous. They may be the guys. I hope they are. More competition and guys that have played the role before could not just be insurance but a necessity.
Just was pointing out that veterans are rarely a better option related to the cap than draft picks.
I wouldn't mind both. Add Phillips and a 1st or 3rd Rder along with Wilson & Galette. Is there any successful 3-4 D that doesn't have a high impact OLB? It is an absolute must- even more than a DE in the 4-3. Two guys who have never played the position before isn't enough for me to feel comfortable planning on.
Just was pointing out that veterans are rarely a better option related to the cap than draft picks.
I wouldn't mind both. Add Phillips and a 1st or 3rd Rder along with Wilson & Galette. Is there any successful 3-4 D that doesn't have a high impact OLB? It is an absolute must- even more than a DE in the 4-3. Two guys who have never played the position before isn't enough for me to feel comfortable planning on.
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