Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team? | Page 11 | TigerDroppings.com

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joey barton
TBD Fan
Member since Feb 2011
9487 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


IIRC

First page: uninspired trolling and counter-trolling.

First page-middle: general arguments about the place of athleticism in soccer.

Middle-latter half: specific arguments about how certain athletes' might turn out had they played soccer for their entire lives

Present: physicality in soccer.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
298712 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


quote:

When I first started posting here you were one of the names I saw more often, so I guess I kind of just assumed

i assume the role of every man soccer fan and i'm a beast at Fifa 10, 11, and 12

this thread is a completely different discussion, though. it's not about analyzing intricate skill or tactics






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
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Member since Jan 2004
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re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


quote:

OK. I was just wondering, in order to immerse even further in this discussion.


to continue. i can't fake that i'm a fan of a team like a real fan of a team. i don't often say it on here bu tit's kind of silly to me. for instance i like the dutch national team b/c it was the first soccer i ever really saw, but i chuckled at how shitty they were at the Euros.

i try not to say "pitch" and i try to say "soccer" as much as possible. i'm 'murkin and i don't hide it

quote:

You seem to think they get preferential treatment, or they´ve changed the way the game is officiated.

i definitely do, and i know i'm not the only one. english commentators always talk about it during games

once in a blue moon i'll watch one of those old games they show on FSC and the level of physicality is at a much higher level

it's kind of like football and basketball, imho. they have instituted rule changes in both to make the games more offensive, free flowing, and less physical. the general masses want to see skilled players doing pretty things and scoring a lot. defensive schemes aren't as sexy.

if boxing wants to stop sliding it will do the same

i don't dislike spain or anything. i hated watching the dutch play pretty soccer in the last cup to turn into leg kickers against spain (b/c while the dutch are awesome at possessing the ball, they aren't on spain's level).

there is a reason why spain is dominating the world scene so much, and it's a combo of a good generation and, imho, their style takes advantage of what FIFA wants soccer to be. i could be wrong (but i don't think i am)






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TN Bhoy
USA Fan
Sketty, Wales
Member since Apr 2010
44390 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


quote:


Present: physicality in soccer.




frick Stoke

frick CONCACAF

frick the Zombies






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TN Bhoy
USA Fan
Sketty, Wales
Member since Apr 2010
44390 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


quote:


once in a blue moon



I knew you were a City fan.








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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
298712 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


long time city fan





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thenry712
Gonzaga Fan
Zasullia, Ukraine
Member since Nov 2008
15360 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


Here's where you're wrong SFP. FIFA hasn't changed the Laws of the Game to further accomodate possession football, like the NFL and NBA have to inflate scoring. There hasn't been a major rule change in soccer since they stopped goalies from picking up pass backs in 1993.

Essentially fouling has become the last line of defense for stopping supremely gifted possession players. There's basically no other way of stopping them, except dropping deep and ceding everything outside of the box. Then you pray that they can't unlock the defense or score from outside the box a la Chelsea, Switzerland, USMNT etc..

Today Gerard Pique pulled off a juggling trick deep in his own half when most other players would clear the ball long. There's no way to defend against that.


To carry on your economic point, I do subscribe to the belief that nations need to stick to their comparative advantages in soccer resources. Total Football originated from the Dutch's need to capitalize on limited space in the Netherlands. Spain realized that a player like Xavi could both effectively defend and attack by completing 100 passes a game. Soon they had 12 Xavis available and realized that they could play as many as possible and win even more effectively. We have great athletes, better athletes than almost everyone else. We just need these athletes to be above average technical players. Right now we have probably 8-9, technically gifted players and some other projects.









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LSUSOBEAST1
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2008
28436 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


quote:

long time city fan








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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
298712 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


quote:

FIFA hasn't changed the Laws of the Game to further accomodate possession football, like the NFL and NBA have to inflate scoring.

well i think they've pushed for refs to call it differently. it's not a formal rule change

it's an opinion, obviously

quote:

We have great athletes, better athletes than almost everyone else. We just need these athletes to be above average technical players. Right now we have probably 8-9, technically gifted players and some other projects.

yeah we're not that technically gifted

honestly, assuming aggressive play in the midfield was allowed, i could see a good american counter to the tika-toka game by having athletic "destroyer" types in the midfield to constantly disrupt and wear down the smaller players. there are only 3 subs in a game, and if you can wear down 4-5 players, you gain the advantage late

the problem is that it would require a 3-4 man midfield with a lot of athleticism but a bunch of positional awareness (that the US doesn't have in abundance) on defense.

basically it would be a war of attrition

that's not why i have my opinions though. i respect spanish possession soccer. i just dislike systems that skew styles of play to force everyone into that style of play. this applies to any sport

i'm starting to become tired of the NBA becoming a pick and roll/driver league, and the NFL becoming a spread passing league, too






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hendersonshands
LA-Lafayette Fan
Univ. of Louisiana Ragin Cajuns
Member since Oct 2007
119820 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


Jose has always countered tiki taka by countering with an extremely high pressure defense. The problem is that you're exerting a ton of energy while Barcelona is only really working when they lose the ball. Teams can't keep up that kind of pressure all game.

Really the best defense is to try to hold the ball yourself, which is tough because all 11 of their guys converge as soon as they lose the ball, or to hit on a counter and defend like hell.






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SlowFlowPro
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Member since Jan 2004
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re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


well over your head





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TN Bhoy
USA Fan
Sketty, Wales
Member since Apr 2010
44390 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


quote:

Total Football originated from the Dutch's need to capitalize on limited space in the Netherlands



Idiocy.

quote:

Spain realized that Cruyff is a genius. They then modeled their game on Cruyff.


quote:

We just need above average management, experience in Europe's top flight leagues, the death of college soccer, the death of the MLS Draft/transfer process, a real number 10, and luck.



FTFY



This post was edited on 2/3 at 11:26 pm


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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
298712 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


quote:

Really the best defense is to try to hold the ball yourself, which is tough because all 11 of their guys converge as soon as they lose the ball, or to hit on a counter and defend like hell.

as it stands today the counter is the obvious best offense

shockingly real held the ball a lot more this week than i was used to seeing them hold against barca

ozil was laying some great passes on the counter though, when they got the opportunity






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thenry712
Gonzaga Fan
Zasullia, Ukraine
Member since Nov 2008
15360 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


Read Brilliant Orange Bhoy.

It discusses how Rinus Michels made the field bigger in attack and compact in defense in his 4-3-3. It had cultural roots in the Dutch need for more space in a country that has none and how Dutch society is built on versatility; two tenants of Total Football.




This post was edited on 2/3 at 11:30 pm


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TN Bhoy
USA Fan
Sketty, Wales
Member since Apr 2010
44390 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


quote:

Read Brilliant Orange



Almost as idiotic as Soccernomics.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
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Member since Jan 2004
298712 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


and the new argument of the thread emerges!





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hendersonshands
LA-Lafayette Fan
Univ. of Louisiana Ragin Cajuns
Member since Oct 2007
119820 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


Özil could step in to Barcelona's side and dominate tomorrow. Not many players have his combination of skill and vision.


If you're able to hold the ball and sustain their initial defensive pressure, you can do well against it. The problem is that not many teams have the ability to do it, maybe Bayern Munich because everyone in their starting xi is a good passer.

The problem with counter attacking is that you're putting all of your eggs into a couple of baskets. Like in the World Cup, if Robben finishes his breakaway, the Dutch probably win but he missed and they went back to soaking up pressure.






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SlowFlowPro
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re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


that happened to real when they didn't capitalize on a few chances





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hendersonshands
LA-Lafayette Fan
Univ. of Louisiana Ragin Cajuns
Member since Oct 2007
119820 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


Some priest didn't like soccernomics so now Bhoy hates it.





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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
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Member since Jan 2004
298712 posts

re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?


i need to finish that. i may this week





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