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Will Smith, 3-4 monster or black and gold history?
Posted on 2/1/13 at 8:58 am
Posted on 2/1/13 at 8:58 am
Was reading some debate in a thread whether Will Smith could be a viable 3-4 player. That is debate worthy. What is even more important when considering his future is his contract and cap implications. In effort to sort of clean the air and establish board consensus on him, here are three main options-
1. Do nothing and he returns under his current contract. That takes no effort and will cost $14.5+ million against the cap. This is totally unfeasible by any stretch of the imagination.
2. Cut him and move on. This will cost the team about $5.5mil against the cap. Spendy, but the price for rolling salaries and bonuses forward.
3. Renegotiate a new deal. He's gonna cost the $5.5mil no matter what. He still could get more than vet minimum on the open market. So it's whatever salary you can negotiate on top of the $5.5mil. Say he can stay for $6.5-7.5mil a year and would be for a couple of years at least.
I see no real option but #2. I cannot see continuing cap commitment to 32 year old DE with declining skills that has never played in a 3-4 before. Better to cut bait and absorb the $5.5. Move on into the newest new era of Saints defense.
Can we all just color him gone or is there some other possibility?
BONUS: Will Smith legacy questions-
Grade Will Smith's career as a Saint (A-F).
Would you be satisfied if this year's #15 had the degree of impact and career as he did as a #18 overall in 2004?
1. Do nothing and he returns under his current contract. That takes no effort and will cost $14.5+ million against the cap. This is totally unfeasible by any stretch of the imagination.
2. Cut him and move on. This will cost the team about $5.5mil against the cap. Spendy, but the price for rolling salaries and bonuses forward.
3. Renegotiate a new deal. He's gonna cost the $5.5mil no matter what. He still could get more than vet minimum on the open market. So it's whatever salary you can negotiate on top of the $5.5mil. Say he can stay for $6.5-7.5mil a year and would be for a couple of years at least.
I see no real option but #2. I cannot see continuing cap commitment to 32 year old DE with declining skills that has never played in a 3-4 before. Better to cut bait and absorb the $5.5. Move on into the newest new era of Saints defense.
Can we all just color him gone or is there some other possibility?
BONUS: Will Smith legacy questions-
Grade Will Smith's career as a Saint (A-F).
Would you be satisfied if this year's #15 had the degree of impact and career as he did as a #18 overall in 2004?
21
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:03 am to blueslover
he gone
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:04 am to blueslover
I love him. He's no superstar by any stretch, but he definitely doesn't deserve all the criticism he gets. I say B+. He served the saints well.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:05 am to blueslover
Will smith isn't a viable anything
He can't play anything in any scheme for anyone
He blows
C+ for his career.
He can't play anything in any scheme for anyone
He blows
C+ for his career.
This post was edited on 2/1/13 at 9:33 am
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:05 am to blueslover
quote:
Was reading some debate in a thread whether Will Smith could be a viable 3-4 player.
Was discussed in my thread for sure. I like Will Smith a lot and thank him for all of his contributions. However, for his pay level and the lack of production in the past, he's just not worth the money. I doubt many people will disagree with me on that part.
The kicker is will he fit the 3-4 and my opinion is no. He is a bigger guy, but he has never been good at stopping the run. Ever. I'm pretty sure a DE in a 3-4 needs to have those skills.
quote:
I see no real option but #2.
I'd give him a solid B.
This post was edited on 2/1/13 at 9:08 am
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:07 am to blueslover
Bye
I'd give him a B. Has made a ton of great plays that have helped a terrible defense. He just hasn't performed at a consistent, week in and week out, level really ever in his career. Was a good pick for us and a good player. Just not great.
I'd give him a B. Has made a ton of great plays that have helped a terrible defense. He just hasn't performed at a consistent, week in and week out, level really ever in his career. Was a good pick for us and a good player. Just not great.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:07 am to blueslover
I don't see it honestly.
At all.
At all.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:08 am to blueslover
Not worth the jack, unfortunately. Thank you for your service, but see ya, big guy.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:11 am to blueslover
quote:
Grade Will Smith's career as a Saint (A-F).
Color him gone. Payton is moving in a different direction and Smith isn't on that bus.
As far as a grade on his career, that's a difficult question and has to be graded by 2 methods:
In relation to that monster contract:
D-
Without that monster contract and if he earned averaged league salary:
C+
Smith has only been an average player since robbing the Saint's bank. Don't know if it was a lack of desire or nagging injuries, but the fact remains he's never earned the big bucks he received on his 2nd contract.
This post was edited on 2/1/13 at 9:15 am
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:12 am to blueslover
2. Easy choice Blu.
As to legacy I think the grades will be lower than it should because of the last two years and his salary issue.
Saints All Time Players Grade B+
4th all time Saints sack leader
139 games played
25 pdef
20 FF
2006 pro bowl
As to legacy I think the grades will be lower than it should because of the last two years and his salary issue.
Saints All Time Players Grade B+
4th all time Saints sack leader
139 games played
25 pdef
20 FF
2006 pro bowl
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:14 am to blueslover
I'll take option #2.
Grade: B-
Satisfied? I suppose, but I am hopeful for more!
Grade: B-
quote:
Would you be satisfied if this year's #15 had the degree of impact and career as he did as a #18 overall in 2004?
Satisfied? I suppose, but I am hopeful for more!
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:19 am to blueslover
Sign him to a one year $5.5 million dollar deal. If he won't do that, then let him go.
Rational: I'd rather take a chance on developing an UFA rookie at rookie minumum than continuing with a 32 year old guy who has never played a 3-4 and won't likely start with Hicks and Jordan on the team.
A
He is a Saints draft choice and is 4th in Saints history in sacks, 14th in tackles, 3rd in forced fumbles, one of only 14 Saints players with a safety, 6th in games played as a Saint defender (139 games w/ 120 starts) and was voted to the all rookie team and a pro bowl.
Rational: I'd rather take a chance on developing an UFA rookie at rookie minumum than continuing with a 32 year old guy who has never played a 3-4 and won't likely start with Hicks and Jordan on the team.
quote:
Grade Will Smith's career as a Saint (A-F).
A
He is a Saints draft choice and is 4th in Saints history in sacks, 14th in tackles, 3rd in forced fumbles, one of only 14 Saints players with a safety, 6th in games played as a Saint defender (139 games w/ 120 starts) and was voted to the all rookie team and a pro bowl.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:26 am to blueslover
In my mind it is 98% option #2 and 2% option #3.
As far as legacy, I would give him a B+ for his career. He hasn't been a superstar, but he has been a starter or contributer for 9 years. That's a pretty long career for an NFL player. He has even made a pro bowl. I would be very happy if pick #15 turned out like him.
As far as legacy, I would give him a B+ for his career. He hasn't been a superstar, but he has been a starter or contributer for 9 years. That's a pretty long career for an NFL player. He has even made a pro bowl. I would be very happy if pick #15 turned out like him.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:33 am to Suntiger
#2, let's move on with the defense, new scheme, new face.
B+, from draft day to superbowl year, he was consistent for 7+ sacks, except for one year (3sacks).
He had a few good spurts (10.5 in '06-'07, 13 in '09-'10), both years happened to be years we went to the conference finals which shows to me he had a big part in them and possibly without him we MAY not have gotten that far.
B+, from draft day to superbowl year, he was consistent for 7+ sacks, except for one year (3sacks).
He had a few good spurts (10.5 in '06-'07, 13 in '09-'10), both years happened to be years we went to the conference finals which shows to me he had a big part in them and possibly without him we MAY not have gotten that far.
This post was edited on 2/1/13 at 9:36 am
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:39 am to Peazey
Will isn't a big and strong enough guy to handle the bookend of a 3-4 IMO and he just isn't that good anymore in the 4-3.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:56 am to Suntiger
quote:
Sign him to a one year $5.5 million dollar deal. If he won't do that, then let him go.
It will cost the minimum $5.5mil just to cut him- no matter what. To keep him, you'll have to add whatever salary on top of that.
quote:
he's never earned the big bucks he received on his 2nd contract.
THIS is the mistake. Loomis and Payton seem to wanna keep key players and reward them. That is good but I love this Belichick axiom: "Better to let them go one contract too soon than to keep them one contract too long."
Two of the major personnel decision failures in the Payton era have been new deals for Charles Grant & Will Smith. Both had some good game left but the contracts paid them beyond their performance level. Roman Harper is coming right up on them counting $15million against the cap the next two years.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:16 am to blueslover
quote:quote:
Sign him to a one year $5.5 million dollar deal. If he won't do that, then let him go.
It will cost the minimum $5.5mil just to cut him- no matter what. To keep him, you'll have to add whatever salary on top of that.
That's what I'm saying. Let him stay for a year at the same price as cutting him. If he doesn't want to do that, then cut him and take the hit.
If we trade him, do we take a cap hit? Is there any trade potential. Hell, I'd take a guy like J. Amaya in a trade and cut him to lessen the cap hit if that's the case.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:34 am to blueslover
gone.
career? C+ (only for his stellar year during our super bowl run. the rest of his career has been above average to bad. The one certainty is that he has been consistently inconsistant.)
career? C+ (only for his stellar year during our super bowl run. the rest of his career has been above average to bad. The one certainty is that he has been consistently inconsistant.)
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:37 am to Suntiger
quote:
That's what I'm saying. Let him stay for a year at the same price as cutting him.
I think you are confused. He counts against the cap at a minimum of $5.5 mil no matter what the Saints do. In order for him to count just $5.5 mil next year and still be playing for the saints, the saints would have to be paying him nothing.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:38 am to Suntiger
quote:
That's what I'm saying. Let him stay for a year at the same price as cutting him. If he doesn't want to do that, then cut him and take the hit.
Yep.
I'm probably in the minority here but I think he could play in the 3-4 and do a decent job. But I'd also like to see what Hicks can do. I'd rather have Hicks win that job but it wouldn't hurt having Smith's veteran presence around IMO.
As for his career: I'd give him a solid B+
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