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Started By
Message
How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee
Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:04 pm
I know the answer is never enough, but I just wonder if there is any guidance as to how much you ideally should be taking from company profits.
Like an ideal balance in distribution of wealth vs the current state.
I ask because I am in SF and am seeing a company getting around certain labor laws so that they won't be forced to provide insurance for employees.
I am looking at how much the company makes in profits and compare that to how much it would cost to provide insurance and it has me questioning a few things:
near 400k in profit, with 12 employees.
Is that "not enough" to provide insurance?
if profits were 500k....would that be enough to provide?
I get that people shouldn't be forced into providing anything and yada,yada,yada,free market, yada,yada,yada, blah,blah,blah
just how much do you need before you take care of the people.....or just not try to circumvent laws?
Like an ideal balance in distribution of wealth vs the current state.
I ask because I am in SF and am seeing a company getting around certain labor laws so that they won't be forced to provide insurance for employees.
I am looking at how much the company makes in profits and compare that to how much it would cost to provide insurance and it has me questioning a few things:
near 400k in profit, with 12 employees.
Is that "not enough" to provide insurance?
if profits were 500k....would that be enough to provide?
I get that people shouldn't be forced into providing anything and yada,yada,yada,free market, yada,yada,yada, blah,blah,blah
just how much do you need before you take care of the people.....or just not try to circumvent laws?
12
Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:15 pm to Iona Fan Man
quote:
I am looking at how much the company makes in profits and compare that to how much it would cost to provide insurance and it has me questioning a few things:
near 400k in profit, with 12 employees.
Is that "not enough" to provide insurance?
I recently left a small company (less than 30 employees) and the group insurance cost over $500/mo a person. So at a company like that, with 12 employees, you're looking at nearly 1/4th of the profits eliminated immediately with healthcare costs.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:23 pm to Golfer
quote:
you're looking at nearly 1/4th of the profits eliminated immediately with healthcare costs.
Oh I am aware, but the legal intent of the law was for the owner to provide Health Insurance.....that money he considers his, really isn't.
It's like taking sales tax, but not submitting it to the city....is that sales tax yours?..are you losing 9.25% if you submit the sales tax?
Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:25 pm to Iona Fan Man
what are they classifying as profit? net profit after all expenses (including overhead, taxes, insuances ect.)
as far as insurance, with only 12 employees the company would not have to circumvent anything. need 50 + fulltime employees to require insurance through the company.
Also, since when did it become a moral obligation of a company to provide health insurance? Why not auto insurance or homeowners insurance? Should a company provide its employees with a cell phone or car? where does it stop? if the employer increased the employees pay by enough so they could pay for health insurance, would they go out and buy insurance or not?
as far as insurance, with only 12 employees the company would not have to circumvent anything. need 50 + fulltime employees to require insurance through the company.
Also, since when did it become a moral obligation of a company to provide health insurance? Why not auto insurance or homeowners insurance? Should a company provide its employees with a cell phone or car? where does it stop? if the employer increased the employees pay by enough so they could pay for health insurance, would they go out and buy insurance or not?
Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:28 pm to Iona Fan Man
Would it be "fair" if said company decreased the persons salary $10k to provide $10k in insurance? Likewise would it be fair for the company to increase a persons salary by $10k and eliminate insurance?
Posted on 1/31/13 at 5:24 pm to Iona Fan Man
What employees receive in compensation and benefits is determined by what is typical in the market for people with comparable skill sets. If a business owner can legally get around Obamacare and pay no insurance benefits while retaining the employees needed there is no problem.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 5:28 pm to Iona Fan Man
quote:
that money he considers his, really isn't.
I really love this part . . . soon enough no money is "his" anymore. It's all ours! Amirite?
$400k may not be much cushion for a business cycle. I don't know. I just have a problem with assuming a company, a person, or any entity should be dictated what is fair by government or any other outside entity.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 5:34 pm to Iona Fan Man
I really hate this healthcare reform, but this is a poli board topic.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 5:37 pm to Iona Fan Man
quote:
near 400k in profit, with 12 employees
That isn't exactly a huge cushion, especially in SF. Besides, it is not the company's responsibility to "take care of" employees, it is each employee's responsibility to look after himself. Everyone working there has the choice to go somewhere else, and those who want something better will.
FWIW, most companies that offer benefits and better conditions don't do so out of any sense of altruism. They do it b/c that's how you get good employees.
This post was edited on 1/31/13 at 5:39 pm
Posted on 1/31/13 at 6:08 pm to foshizzle
quote:it really, really isn't and its a shame small business owners are being put in this position.
That isn't exactly a huge cushion, especially in SF
Posted on 1/31/13 at 6:50 pm to Iona Fan Man
Mind your own business?
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:04 pm to Iona Fan Man
I own a small company and I'm paying $30K a year for company health insurance as the business owner. Three employees total. Health insurance is damned expensive.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:07 pm to Iona Fan Man
quote:
that money he considers his, really isn't.
Oh, really? Who is taking the risk and who is collecting paychecks with no risk involved? Guess who doesn't take a paycheck if the business goes into a tailspin? It sure as hell isn't the employees. I hate this freaking "they're rich because they own a business" mentality. We're the ones who open the doors in the morning and close them at night after everyone else is gone.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:08 pm to Iona Fan Man
quote:
near 400k in profit
Define that $400K because I bet there isn't $400K sitting in accounts at the end of the year.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:09 pm to Iona Fan Man
Liberals never cease to amaze me.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:15 pm to Iona Fan Man
You mind telling us what supposed law requires this particular business to provide healthcare?
Posted on 1/31/13 at 10:04 pm to Iona Fan Man
quote:
.that money he considers his, really isn't.
Know how I know you're a Democrat?
Seriously though, I can't believe that just came out of your brain.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 10:33 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
I bet there isn't $400K sitting in accounts at the end of the year.
That's a minor detail. You are expected to break even at best. It's only fair.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 11:47 pm to foshizzle
Nothing to see here. No obligation, unless he wants to retain his employees from walking across the street to someone who pays for insurance benefits.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 12:23 am to TROLA
LINK
my issue is that businesses are supposed to follow the guild lines, not lie and cheat their way around them...and when they get caught there isn't a punitive penalty(jail or fines so high you wouldn't risk it)
Paying HC for the year > penalty for circumventing the law so you don't have to pay HC.
How are you supposed to compete against businesses that aren't "playing by the rules"?
If you don't want to play by the rules, sell or move your business.
my issue is that businesses are supposed to follow the guild lines, not lie and cheat their way around them...and when they get caught there isn't a punitive penalty(jail or fines so high you wouldn't risk it)
Paying HC for the year > penalty for circumventing the law so you don't have to pay HC.
How are you supposed to compete against businesses that aren't "playing by the rules"?
If you don't want to play by the rules, sell or move your business.
This post was edited on 2/1/13 at 12:24 am
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