re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?

Ok. You guys aren't being fair to Maximus.

I'm talking in his Prime before the shite hits the fan.

And Hector at least made Achilles sweat a little. It wasnt easy by any stretch.

Its fair to assume Maximus is better than Hector...

So I think he lasts a little longer. He was smart and crafty as hell.

Achilles would fricking shite ON Maximus

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Its fair to assume Maximus is better than Hector...

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is it?

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That is why Hector is the man for knowingly fighting him. And he still hurt him in the fight.

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No, he didn't hurt him. You seem to have a weird thing for Hector and are trying to overstate his fighting ability compared to Achilles, which is ridiculous. Have you read the Iliad? Achilles was invulnerable other than his heel, so unless Hector deduced this during the fight he was completely screwed. And no, he did not hurt Achilles

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Ok. You guys aren't being fair to Maximus.

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www.mythagora.com

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Achilles was the son of King Peleus and the Nereid, Thetis. His birth was the result of the union between a mortal (Peleus) and an Immortal (Thetis), which made Achilles semi-divine.

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Hector at least made Achilles sweat a little

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That was a movie. IRL, Achilles was part god

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...With the onslaught of Achilles in his unstoppable anger, Hector lost his nerve and began to run. Every time Hector tried to reach the safety of the city walls, Achilles would cut him off and force him back to open ground. King Priam watched the spectacle from the walls but was powerless to help his doomed son. Achilles chased Hector four times around the city until finally he stopped and faced Achilles, ready to fight

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He also had a f'ing bad shield.

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Achilles's shield was massive and made of bronze and tin, with three folds on the rim and five in the center ... the strap was made of silver. Hephaistos inscribed the earth, the sea, the sun, the moon and the stars on the face of the shield. Two cities were also visible on the face of the shield. In one city, the animated population was depicted in various forms of public activities ... a wedding ceremony with dancers and singers ... apart from the wedding, two men were arguing in the marketplace before an assembly of elders. The other city was being besieged by two armies ... Athene and Ares (god of War) were on the battlefield ... Eris (goddess of Discord) stalked through the warfare dragging three men ... one was wounded, one was unhurt and the other was dead ... her clothing was stained with blood.

The shield of Achilles also had majestic scenes with noblemen, farmers, and children. The figures were made of gold and animated to reflect the work of men and kings in everyday life. There were scenes where lions were eating the torn flesh of oxen while the herdsmen's dogs bayed ineffectually at the savage beasts. There was a dancing floor with young men in tunics and women dressed in long, light robes. The dancers ran or formed rows which crisscrossed one another. Two acrobats led the spectators in song.

Finally, Hephaistos rimmed the shield with Okeanos (Ocean) for strength. He then turned his craft to the armor which would protect Achilles's body. He made a bright corselet, an intricate helmet with a gold top-ridge and grieves of pliable tin to protect Achilles's legs.

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and he kept getting help from the gods (who planned out the whole thing).

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the goddess Athene came invisibly to him and placed ambrosia and nectar in his breast so that he would be able to fight when the time came

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Maximus might be smart but he wouldn't have been fast enough to challenge him.

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Achilles was fast, he was the fastest runner in either army ... many Trojans simply had no choice but to fight or be stabbed in the back with Achilles's massive spear.

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or tough enough.

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any man who came within stabbing distance fell to Achilles's spear....Achilles charged back into the Trojan lines and started killing men and chariot horses without discrimination.

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He was the Honey Badger of his day. Did and took what he wanted.

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Achilles had a massive funeral pyre built for Patroklos and made elaborate sacrifices to his dead companion. Achilles killed sheep, oxen, nine of Patroklos's dogs and twelve young Trojan men to be placed on the pyre with Patroklos's body.

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Do you have any idea how ridiculous this sounds?

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Hey man, don't argue with me. I've got a Bachelor of Arts Degree and a minor in History. I'm an expert on this stuff.

I had one of these behind it but had to cut it.

I thought it was almost as good as "Mighty Mouse is a cartoon. Superman's a real guy. There's no way a cartoon could beat up a real guy."

Maximus would own Hector.

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Do you have any idea how ridiculous this sounds?

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I , too.

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I know Orlando Bloom was a total fail in the movie. But it had a great cast and the source material is great as well.

Why was it so..."meh"

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The acting was fairly wooden, despite the cast. How many movies have put Pitt in the lead and he delivered? Legends of the Fall ? Benjamin Buttons maybe? I like Pitt, but he tends to shine in support or ensemble roles such as in True Romance, 12 Monkeys, Seven, Burn After Reading, the Oceans series rather than pulling the heavy load in films like Troy.

NOW think of the cast in Gladiator - Phoenix gives his best role (yes I saw Walk the Line), as did Crowe. Oliver Reed and Richard Harris - homerun and a triple, respectively, and those 2 actors are better than all of the actors in Troy, save perhaps Peter O'Toole. Bean, Brian Cox and Julie Christie were all okay, but not enough to save it. Although Russell Crowe is clearly at his best here, even a B grade from the lead would not have kept Gladiator from being awesome

Wolfgang is a great director - not one of my favorites (and Ridley is my favorite, period), but his directing skills are not in question here. Sometimes a movie fails on chemistry and doesn't make it - Ishtar is an example that shows that great elements don't guarantee a great film.

Look at how Ridley handled Kingdom of Heaven - I don't think that film was a homerun, but definitely shows what the will of a director can accomplish, if properly resourced or supported. Ridley tends to get better performances out of his actors and a convincing delivery of the material, and even if you don't care for the film, (I don't care for GI Jane or Thelma and Louise, but I admit they're well done.)