Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........ | Page 6 | TigerDroppings.com

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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2014
Member since Jan 2010
16186 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

Maybe we would should let people starve to death for shits and giggles

I knew someone was going to come back with this illogical conclusion.

I stated that the population of organisms would grow to meet the food supply. I am merely stating that without the surplus food, these indivuals wouldn't have ben born in the first place. I am not advocating that we sever food distribution suddenly, as you seem to think.

My point is that through our technology we have swelled populations outside of our own borders. When you include the medications that we've developed through our technology, it only exacerbates the problem. These huge increases in populations have caused an enormous amount of strife in regions that do not have the same level of technological sophistication that we enjoy. Our solutions are not always the best solutions for other people - indeed, our short term solutions are not always the best solutions for us either.






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cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
25457 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

Are you putting a value judgement on that?


If by value judgment you mean stating the fact that the modern agribusiness has fed 1B people who'd be dead otherwise then yes.

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So the question is, do we want to grow as many humans as possible?


Yes - more humans = more innovation, better quality of life.

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What happens when the food supply fails?


Barring some cataclysmic event that would have repercussion beyond the food supply I can't foresee a food supply failure.

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Would a better goal be to develop sustainable agriculture models tailored for regional circumstances and to help develop distribution networks also tailored for regional circumstances?


I think people are free to do as they please....starvation in the modern age has nothing to do with agribusiness and everything to do with corrupt political systems in the 3rd world - namely Africa.

quote:

Agribusiness has one goal and one goal only - short term growth of shareholder value. There is nothing incentivizing sustainable agriculture. Producers become dependent on the "industrial food complex", if anything fails along the production/distribution line, you will have famine.


Companies want to make money - yes. I don't know why this is always thrown out as some kind of bugaboo...it incentivizes growth and innovation. And can you point to when the modern agribusiness has failed and produced famine? I think we can point to numerous times when the pre-industrial food system resulted in widespread deprivation and death....

quote:

We are creating dependents world wide with our "industrial food complex".


We are dependent on food and food producers.






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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2014
Member since Jan 2010
16186 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

BR is getting one off Acadian and Perkins

I'm afraid of the impact that will have on the Bet-R.






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cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
25457 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

My point is that through our technology we have swelled populations outside of our own borders. When you include the medications that we've developed through our technology, it only exacerbates the problem. These huge increases in populations have caused an enormous amount of strife in regions that do not have the same level of technological sophistication that we enjoy.


Can you seriously provide an example of where our technological innovations - in this instance food supply - has led to regional strife?






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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2014
Member since Jan 2010
16186 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

If by value judgment you mean stating the fact that the modern agribusiness has fed 1B people who'd be dead otherwise then yes.

False conclusion. Those people would not have been born in the first place.
quote:

Yes - more humans = more innovation, better quality of life.

That's absurd, link?
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Barring some cataclysmic event that would have repercussion beyond the food supply I can't foresee a food supply failure.

Yeah, because cataclysmic events NEVER happen. There is already a problem in our food supply chain. We are far too dependent on far too few varieties of crops. All it takes is one organism to develop resistance to the suite of pesticides that we use and there could be a massive reduction in productivity.

I'm sure when they were developing anti-biotics no one could foresee bacteria like staphylococcus becoming resistant to all forms. We are at the mercy of natural forces which have shown to be quite fickle and have little regard for our technology or efforts.
quote:

I think people are free to do as they please....starvation in the modern age has nothing to do with agribusiness and everything to do with corrupt political systems in the 3rd world - namely Africa.

But they are not free to do as they please. First of all, they are dependant on US agribusiness to supply the artificially inflated populations. Second of all they are subject to the very corrupt political systems you mention. People are now dependent on US exports either in the form of sterile seed or artificial food distribution controlled by the local corrupt political systems.

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Companies want to make money - yes. I don't know why this is always thrown out as some kind of bugaboo

I didn't say it was a "bugaboo", I merely stated that it was fact. So we can't even talk about corporate incentives? If you start to think that agribusiness is in the business of feeding people, you're making a vital error. They are not, feeding people is secondary to their legal responsibility to their shareholders. We have to keep their motivation in mind and analyze accordingly. There's nothing inherently wrong with increasing shareholder value, but we have to see it for what it is and not try to fool ourselves into thinking it's something else.
quote:

We are dependent on food and food producers.

Some of us ARE food producers. But yes, we are, generally speaking, dependent on food producers. Luckily for us our food producers produce a surplus. But we have to be responsible with how we deal with that surplus, we don't want to end up with a bunch of people outside of our borders becoming dependent on us.

The interests of the shareholders are not always the interests of the nation as a whole. Going back to sustainable agriculuture in many developing countries would be in our national interests, but there's really no money in it, so it is not in the best interests of the shareholders.






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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2014
Member since Jan 2010
16186 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

Can you seriously provide an example of where our technological innovations - in this instance food supply - has led to regional strife?

Yes. Grain exports to developing countries set up artificial and centralized distribution networks that are easily controlled by corrupt governments.






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Mike da Tigah
St. Denham Rougeville
Member since Feb 2005
41339 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

I'm afraid of the impact that will have on the Bet-R.


Yep, and the whole area which, save a couple of chains, really does have a local neighborhood feel to it. It's one of the few areas in BR that I think gets it, and hasn't been corrupted with chainville USA. It, mid city, and the garden district, and hundred oaks are special areas I'd really like to see remain isolated from all that corporate shite. Although, I suppose if you're going to have one, then it's not as bad of a poison as others would be. At least Walmart is now on College.



This post was edited on 1/17 at 9:17 am


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BugAC
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
19308 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


I would like to know the rationale behind Whole Foods doing this. Obviously they are doing it to support Obama, but it is not rationale.

Concealed carry permit holders are subject to multiple background tests and must take classes and be approved in order to carry a concealed firearm. They must also have some range time behind them, to prove they are capable of handling and firing a weapon. So, all in all, they are responsible people, and i don't remember seeing very many crimes where CC permit holders committing crimes.
So now whole foods is saying they do not want those people in the store. Which is their right to do, and they can do as they wish. However, what about the criminal that goes in to rob the place? or the psychopath that goes in to shoot the place. Every human being with a thinking brain (liberals excluded) knows that criminals don't follow the law, and anti-gun legislation is not aimed at them. So if i'm whole foods, why would i want those that can possibly defend or protect others, not allowed in the store? Why would i advertise that my store is unprotected?






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cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
25457 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

False conclusion. Those people would not have been born in the first place.


And as the population peaked with food supply people would have starved to death.

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That's absurd, link?


I'm a cornucopian, you're a malthusian...my side is winning....check out Julian Simon and specifically his bet with Ehrlich...What's absurd is the fact you have your view and are completely unaware of the other and the fact that time has proven it out.

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Yeah, because cataclysmic events NEVER happen.


You misunderstand...I said it would be cataclysmic to the point that food supply would only be one of many considerations.

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There is already a problem in our food supply chain. We are far too dependent on far too few varieties of crops. All it takes is one organism to develop resistance to the suite of pesticides that we use and there could be a massive reduction in productivity.

I'm sure when they were developing anti-biotics no one could foresee bacteria like staphylococcus becoming resistant to all forms. We are at the mercy of natural forces which have shown to be quite fickle and have little regard for our technology or efforts.


Why do you assume we won't be able to invent the means to overcome? We already have numerous times...the problem with malthusians is they see the world and tech frozen in time....never taken into account humans' incredible ability to adapt and innovate.

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But they are not free to do as they please. First of all, they are dependant on US agribusiness to supply the artificially inflated populations. Second of all they are subject to the very corrupt political systems you mention. People are now dependent on US exports either in the form of sterile seed or artificial food distribution controlled by the local corrupt political systems.


This is a political problem...Mansanto isn't moving food to Africa...do gooders are...and the problem is their misunderstanding of what it takes to help these nations.

quote:

Some of us ARE food producers. But yes, we are, generally speaking, dependent on food producers. Luckily for us our food producers produce a surplus. But we have to be responsible with how we deal with that surplus, we don't want to end up with a bunch of people outside of our borders becoming dependent on us.

The interests of the shareholders are not always the interests of the nation as a whole. Going back to sustainable agriculuture in many developing countries would be in our national interests, but there's really no money in it, so it is not in the best interests of the shareholders.


These are political problems, not agribusiness, food chain, industrial food problems...The primary reasons nations starve today is due to war/political strife - they can't grow crops - that's not a caused by the modern food supply.









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cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
25457 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

Yes. Grain exports to developing countries set up artificial and centralized distribution networks that are easily controlled by corrupt governments.


Political not technological/food supply problem.






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Hammertime
UNO Fan
apples
Member since Jan 2012
16628 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

BR is getting one off Acadian and Perkins
My buddy that is a higher-up for them said there would be one in Laffy and one somewhere else I cant remember. Why the hell would they build one on Perkins?Acadian if there is one 5 miles away already?






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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2014
Member since Jan 2010
16186 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

And as the population peaked with food supply people would have starved to death.

Not necessarily, not as long as a sudden large supply were not delivered.

I'm talking about basic population biology.

I used to work with a woman who considered herself quite a do-gooder. Next to our office building was a dumpster that received garbage from a cafeteria. There were a couplf of cats that would hang around and take advantage of the easy food supply.

Well coworker, let's just call her "Crazy Betty", projects her own value system onto the cats and feels sorry for them having to eat garbage so she decides she'll be 'humane' and put a bowl of catfood out for them.

Well, the next thing you know, there are three bowls of catfood and over ten cats that she's supporting.

Then Crazy Betty decides to quit and take a job up in the Pacific Northwest and she asks me if I'll take care of the cats for her. "Sure" I reply. She gives me the 10 lb bag of food and I ask her what that's for. "To feed the cats!" she says.

Well, needless to say, I am not going to be buying food for a bunch of stray cats, so I stopped supplementing their food supply. The next thing you know, we're back down to two cats.

Did the others starve? Maybe some of them. But the point is that we never would have bneen in that ethical dilemma if she hadn't started supplementing their food supply in the first place. Yes, it's sad that some cats starved, but it's sadder still that Crazy Betty didn't realize that she was the one at fault for artificially expanding that cat population in the first place. The original two cats were as happy as they could be eating garbage, they didn't know any better.

A population should not exceed the carrying capacity of their environment. It's one thing to provide food relief for areas tempoarily hit with famine through drought or other natural setbacks. BUT, trying to maintain populations in changing environments such as the Sahel, where desertification is reducing the carrying capacity of the environment is a recipe for disaster.
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Why do you assume we won't be able to invent the means to overcome?

It's one thing to invent technology for what a society sees as its own problems, but to introduce technology to other societies in order to correct wrongs perceived trough one's own cultural bias is a mistake and make you responsible for the consequences.
quote:

Mansanto isn't moving food to Africa

Monsanto is SELLING sterile grain to African farmers. This grain will not produce seed for next years crop. This grain is also engineered for specific pesticides and nutrients that aren't naturally avaiolable in Africa, so the African farmers have become dependent on Monsanto to provide them seed, pesticides and nutrients.

Another side effect of the Monsanto products is that they are EXTREMELY petroleum dependent. So not only are African farmers dependent on American agribusiness, but American agribusiness is becoming increasingly dependent on foreign petroleum supplies.

So now we have a system whereby a political misstep by the US administration can cause a disruption in the supply of petroleum and thereby production of grain, pesticides and nutrients, which in turn may cause a shortage of food in developing countries which in turn can lead to famine.

The food distribution system in place today does not have enough redundancy to be robust. But it does serve the shareholders of agribusiness, so it continues.
quote:

These are political problems, not agribusiness, food chain, industrial food problems

That's a pretty naive statement. The structure of the current food distribution network lends itself to being manipulated by politics/"political problems". In some cases may cbe considered a cause of political problems.






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SmellslikeKevinBacon
LSU Fan
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2012
3050 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


While I understand the point you are making, do you really need to bring your gun to go grocery shopping? I have never once been in a grocery store and thought to myself "I should have brought my gun, the bread aisle looks dangerous today."





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foshizzle
LSU Fan
Washington DC metro
Member since Mar 2008
30360 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


Maybe they want some robbers to visit them.





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crispyUGA
Georgia Fan
Official Team Durden Hype-Man
Member since Feb 2011
7807 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


Man, I fricking love Whole Foods...their hot bar is awesome. All the wings you can fit in a bucket for $8.99? frick yes.





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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
23250 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

I have never once been in a grocery store and thought to myself "I should have brought my gun, the bread aisle looks dangerous today."
I was at my neighborhood Kroger when it was robbed by a group of four armed robbers. They took patrons as hostages to when the ran out. Let them go as soon as they hit the door, though.






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Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5422 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

Man, I fricking love Whole Foods...their hot bar is awesome. All the wings you can fit in a bucket for $8.99? frick yes.



WHAT? Where da hell is this? Daddy Want!!






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Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5422 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

I have never once been in a grocery store and thought to myself "I should have brought my gun, the bread aisle looks dangerous today."



I bet prior to the shootings in Denver, nobody thought....oh I should bring my gun to the Batman movie, looks dangerous today.

I bet prior to Sandyhook most of those people never thought, man I am going to my 6 year olds school today looks dangerous today.

I can bet you that the survivors and victims of the above incidents truly wish they would of brought a gun into the movie or school that day.

Most people who carry a weapon never use it for self defense. They carry it for that day that the bad guy doesn't send them a memo that they are going to attempt to injure innocent people.

Unless you are in an old time duel, you never know when you might need a weapon. Rather have one and not need it, then need one and not have it.







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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
23250 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


quote:

nobody thought..
See that's the deal. Google <insert grocery chain> + "armed robbery" and tell me you feel safe in a grocery store.

It's easy to have a false sense of security. Do people think that criminals open carry assault rifles? Even the dumbest criminal isn't going to walk around brandishing a weapon. This isn't the Wild West FFS.







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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
42050 posts

re: Whole Foods is a Gun Free Zone........


I have no problem with eligible people having a cc permit. On the other hand, I don't see anything at all wrong with a business deciding to prohibit guns being on the promises. And, yes, I know that armed robbers won't obey the sign, but that's not the point.





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