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re: Has ESPN Destroyed Sports?
Posted on 1/4/13 at 9:24 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 1/4/13 at 9:24 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
numbers never lie is a great example of a show that just couldn't exist in a more normal discussion and has devolved into first take part 2, for example. ESPN tried, it failed, and it's going for ratings
That show got me angry. If you remember, back in the 90s, ESPN was at the forefront of the statistical revolution. They weren't pushing it exactly, but they were well ahead of the networks by embracing newish stats and just being the outlet for "thinking fans". As they've grown in popularity, they have not just dumbed down significantly, they have become probably the most antagonistic to anything that varies from the traditional narrative.
It's not just stats. Can you imagine the modern ESPN having Dr. Jack Ramsey on to break down the NBA finals for like ten minutes? Remember how football heavy Sunday Night Football was at first? Very wonky. It's how Jaws made his bones.
Sure, people talked smack about Marino, but it's also because he was a dick. Most stars who didn't win titles were sympathized with, not demonized. And it certainly wasn't seen as a character flaw.
1
Posted on 1/4/13 at 9:24 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
I think the only sport where ESPN is way out of control and has too much power is CF
but without ESPN, CFB wouldn't be the national power that it is today. they were an early adopter, developed relationships with the 2 top conferences, and have expanded coverage. it's their empire/they built that
Posted on 1/4/13 at 9:29 am to BamaICON
I definitely wish ESPN had a few major competitors. Who would want either CNN or Fox to be the only news source?
Posted on 1/4/13 at 9:29 am to Baloo
quote:
If you remember, back in the 90s, ESPN was at the forefront of the statistical revolution.
i used to read rob neyer and i hated baseball at the time and couldn't watch a game. i just liked reading about that stats (i don't know if he was the first, but i remember a guy from that era)
quote:
. As they've grown in popularity, they have not just dumbed down significantly, they have become probably the most antagonistic to anything that varies from the traditional narrative.
i will say that where they may have left off with MLB they picked up with the NBA. john hollinger was hired a loooong time ago and has been pushing advanced stats in the NBA for a while, and he got a lot of play
NnL was never a real discussion about advanced stats. but now it's just hugh douglas and somebody else arguing what they argued on first take and then at the end michael smith is like, "OH HERE'S A RANDOM ADVANCED STAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW. I WIN"
quote:
Sure, people talked smack about Marino, but it's also because he was a dick. Most stars who didn't win titles were sympathized with, not demonized. And it certainly wasn't seen as a character flaw.
i can throw out another: joe fricking namath
Posted on 1/4/13 at 9:38 am to SlowFlowPro
I think ESPN in their current standing are bad for sports. But I don't think they ruined them.
ESPN is a shadow of it's former self. The ESPN that built the empire is no longer. SportsCenter is borderline unwatchable. It's 3 highlights, an opinion argument, and 40 minutes of what people are saying on Twitter.
And they really do not report on anything other than what they broadcast. That's ok because they're not a news organization. But the problem is that they try to portray themselves as a news organization.
The fact that most people derive their opinions based on what ESPN does and says means that they set the sports narrative for this country. That's not a good thing. It's like the idiots that base their political opinion on the Daily Show.
ESPN is a shadow of it's former self. The ESPN that built the empire is no longer. SportsCenter is borderline unwatchable. It's 3 highlights, an opinion argument, and 40 minutes of what people are saying on Twitter.
And they really do not report on anything other than what they broadcast. That's ok because they're not a news organization. But the problem is that they try to portray themselves as a news organization.
The fact that most people derive their opinions based on what ESPN does and says means that they set the sports narrative for this country. That's not a good thing. It's like the idiots that base their political opinion on the Daily Show.
Posted on 1/4/13 at 9:55 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
they're not a news organization. But the problem is that they try to portray themselves as a news organization.
I agree.
I mean, during the college football season, they will certainly report on big games that aren't on their family of networks (like the CBS-SEC game of the week), but I was pretty amazed at the complete lack of coverage of the LSU-A&M Cotton Bowl, which was the only college bowl game on Fox.
Based on other posters in this thread, it sounds like they haven't covered this year's Cotton Bowl too much, which is surprising since A&M has the Heisman winner.
Posted on 1/4/13 at 12:23 pm to Baloo
quote:
With that out of the way, ESPN propogates some of the most toxic things about modern sports, namely:
-- Using "news" as a marketing arm. It's unethical and it's an inferior product anyway.
-- Screaming head shows. I'll let PTI slide because it was kind of the first and the two hosts are obvious friends who are just needling each other like friends do. There's an undercurrent of goofiness and fun. But nothing has sunk discourse more than the existence of Skip Bayless.
-- the cult of the championship. This belief that a player sucks unless he wins lots of titles is just horribly toxic and prevents us from enjoying sport. The games themselves have value more than just crowning a champ. It's ruined college football.
-- The incredibly toxic belief second place is first loser. It's just demanding to be unhappy and miserable. It's also breeding an era of sociopaths in sport.
-- Brand protection. Sports stars used to have opinions on things and were well-rounded people. Ali protested the war, for example. Now, players are automotons who try to say nothing controversial and any outside interests are actually derided by fans because they aren't constantly devoting their life to the sport. Modern athletes are socially and emotionally stunted, and a lot of its due to how ESPN covers them.
Now that's a droppie winning post right there
Posted on 1/4/13 at 3:42 pm to Baloo
quote:
Until recently, ESPN didn't have any real competition. NBCS is just getting off the ground and while no one is watching, some of the shows are really high quality. I already watch the Lights almost exclusively for sports highlights, ditching SportsCenter.
The answer is both yes and no. Let's focus on the positives first, because I think critics of ESPN forget all of the good they've done: I can now watch pretty much every game by every team in every sport. That is awesome, and you kids don't truly get that this is a new development. Hell, even in the 90s, when we though we had tons of access, most games weren't on national TV. OK, ESPN doesn't broadcast all of those events, but they kind of created the demand and they do broadcast a lot of them. Being a sports fan now is far easier than it was in 1992, and about a billion times better than 1982. At the end of the day, that's a huge positive, and I can't thank ESPN enough for that.
With that out of the way, ESPN propogates some of the most toxic things about modern sports, namely:
-- Using "news" as a marketing arm. It's unethical and it's an inferior product anyway.
-- Screaming head shows. I'll let PTI slide because it was kind of the first and the two hosts are obvious friends who are just needling each other like friends do. There's an undercurrent of goofiness and fun. But nothing has sunk discourse more than the existence of Skip Bayless.
-- the cult of the championship. This belief that a player sucks unless he wins lots of titles is just horribly toxic and prevents us from enjoying sport. The games themselves have value more than just crowning a champ. It's ruined college football.
-- The incredibly toxic belief second place is first loser. It's just demanding to be unhappy and miserable. It's also breeding an era of sociopaths in sport.
-- Brand protection. Sports stars used to have opinions on things and were well-rounded people. Ali protested the war, for example. Now, players are automotons who try to say nothing controversial and any outside interests are actually derided by fans because they aren't constantly devoting their life to the sport. Modern athletes are socially and emotionally stunted, and a lot of its due to how ESPN covers them.
YES!! YES!! YESSSSSSSSSSS!
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