re: England and WC 2014

Randy is just a dedicated troll. He'll argue for hours about something he knows nothing about, which is just soccer in general.

Fair enough, I would definitely think he's better than the rest of the guys I mentioned in that post.

And when I say he's not "elite," that's obviously a relative term here.

That list has a fantastic balance of inexperienced youth players, players at or near their prime and veterans who still have something to offer in an international tournament. There is not a single player on that list who "sucks cock."

I understand you had an agenda before starting this thread, but there will be no answer that pleases you. England is doomed and will probably lose every group match in the 2014 WC. Their fans (which I am not even close to being one - I criticize England's international performances as much as any other on this board) might as well throw their scarves and kits away.

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There is not a single player on that list who "sucks cock."

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:/

I thought that this was the whole reason we watched soccer. Are they not all gay?

That's great and all that you rattled off a laundry list of names. When I meant that there would be rebuttal, I wasn't asking for 35 people. I was asking for a reason to believe that England would be able to have at-or-near established EPL players that can fundamentally transform the team into a major player on the stage. In other words, arguments like the ones for Wilshere and Cleverley, although I disagreed.

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I understand you had an agenda before starting this thread, but there will be no answer that pleases you.

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I had my mind made up before starting a thread on a topic and subsequently gave my opinion in the OP with room for debate on a message board of all places? That's uncalled for!! What was I thinking?

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England is doomed and will probably lose every group match in the 2014 WC.

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Nah, IMO they will probably do anywhere from about the same to slightly better than 2010, largely depending on what their group looks like.

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Their fans (which I am not even close to being one - I criticize England's international performances as much as any other on this board) might as well throw their scarves and kits away.

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I still think it would help England if some of their best young players went play in Spain, Germany, or Italy.


That would do wonders for young players but unfortunately won't happen because of $$.

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Definitely agree with this.

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Because that's the only thing really wrong with English football at the International level at least in terms of results.

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Have you watched England play any matches the last 12 years? Sure, they've had absolutely terrible luck in terms of penalties, but you can't look at the way they play and think, "This is an elite level side."

I agree that there are many ways to play, and many ways to win the game. Playing like Spain is something only the Spanish can do, and the same goes for the Italian's. Yet the future of the game is clear. It's not any surprise that the teams with the best DLP's do well in international tournaments, since 2005. The game has moved away from pace and power in general, to being a game about waiting for the other team to make a mistake. The offside rule has made teams more cautious defensively. This has placed value on players who can move the ball quickly from deep in defense to attack.

I also don't see how anyone can argue that losing Scholes in 2004 didn't adversely affect England's performance in later tournaments. He's a player of considerable technique and vision. He's only underrated because he doesn't fit the mold of the traditional English AM, who are basically very large support strikers. Gerrard was at his best when he played off a striker, and Lampard was at his when he played close to a target striker. Scholes was a different animal, starting out as a AM but moving deeper in midfield. The difference is that Gerrard and Lampard are direct players, while Scholes plays with more guile, and in that regard, is thoughtful with the ball.

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I was asking for a reason to believe that England would be able to have at-or-near established EPL players that can fundamentally transform the team into a major player on the stage.

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We've already answered this. It's their change in style. English players have evolved over the past 10 years. They no longer solely rely on stamina or physical presence. Very few top clubs still hoof the ball up and down the field. An emphasis on passing, possession, technical ability, patience and intelligence is beginning to develop. That's where you see major differences from the likes of Gerrard and Lampard to Cleverly, Wilshere, Henderson, Rodwell, etc.

Defenders no longer clear the fricking ball every chance they get. Phil Jones, Glen Johnson, Gary Cahill, Leighton Baines, Martin Kelly, Kieran Gibbs are all comfortable actually passing the ball out of the back and having the ball at their feet. This is something other countries have had for years and the English are just getting to.

The midfielders are much different than they have ever been before. The aforementioned players can actually have the ball at their feet, compile build-up, pick out a pass, complete a dribble, pass in tight spaces and put in a tough shift. They need a solid holding midfielder which I'm not sure they've found yet.

The forwards are also dynamic. Daniel Sturridge, Theo Walcott, Raheem Sterling, Tom Ince, Ashley Young, Wayne Rooney, Danny Welbeck, etc aren't traditional wingers. They don't just drive to the byline to put in a cross. They can score, assist, take men on, beat you with pace, play any of the 3 attacking positions, pick a pass, etc. And if that isn't working, they can bring in a target man (Andy Carroll) and cause matchup problems through him.

The current personnel seems to be more adapted to the modern game than previous squads. They are doing their best to mimic Spain and Germany. The PL has had an influx of possession based systems in the past couple seasons and that will continue to help the majority of these young players who will have to have a role in upcoming tournaments. The influx of foreign stars will continue and that will also get the best out of a lot of these young players. In all honesty, they can't be much worse than the previous generation in international tournaments.

iI don't know what else to say. You should be able to see the correlation between the types of young English players and the way the international game is played. Whether or not Woy will manage them well, who knows.

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Randy is just a dedicated troll

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From a "dedicated troll" to a dedicated dumbass

Until the Brits actually PLAY for a major international title....they will NOT belong to the elite teams...i.e. Spain,Italy,Brazil,Argentina,Holland etc.
It will continue to be well, England can,should or could be....nothing more !
Like I said...the Brits have an absolutely terrible record since 1966 {IF you purport to be any kind of soccer "power"...which they have NOT been } Face it England sucks in Intl. soccer