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re: Is the NFL taking a turn towards the more athletic quarterbacks?
Posted on 12/12/12 at 10:23 pm to TTsTowel
Posted on 12/12/12 at 10:23 pm to TTsTowel
Yes, Roger won't let the defenses decapitate QBs anymore when they leave the pocket to run, so yes you will see more running QBs.
However, I think there is something to be said that the top 5 QBs are all pocket passers still.
The thing about the NFL is that it doesn't really matter what you are great at, the defenses will ultimately take away what you do best and force you to adapt.
RGIII runs a running, short pass attack. He is usually getting rid of the ball very quickly to a receiver within 10 y of the LOS or he just runs. Will be interesting to see how defenses adjust to him. He also has the #1 rushing attack in the league. What happens if that goes away?
It will be interesting to see how his career goes. I am terrified that I will see him killed in live action one day though. He is easily the most interesting and dynamic QB in awhile. I am not sure he can do it long term, but I won't say he can't.
Luck is one that everyone wants to compare to Peyton, but he is just so much more mobile. He's more like Rodgers and I see him running less as he get's older and taking off only when needed. He's doing it with no running game which is amazing as a rookie. I see him as the best of this group we are talking about long term and the only sure bet.
Kaepernick and Russell both have amazing top 4 running games and ridiculous defenses to lean on. Both are overhyped at this point. Kevin Kolb looked great in 10 games with a great D and good running game in Philly. Just not sold on either.
Locker and Cam I see ultimately as being good, sometimes very good QBs that will have long careers but won't ever win a title.
I would put Alex Smith below that in a needs a good system category.
Vick and Tebow are effectively done.
It is telling that when you look at passing yardage and number of passing TDS right now you have to get down to #13 on each list before you get a "running" styled QB on either list.
I think for some of these guys it's working now, but the NFL has shown season after season that dual threat QBs don't win Super Bowls (Young notwithstanding).
I would like to see RGIII be the one to do it though.
However, I think there is something to be said that the top 5 QBs are all pocket passers still.
The thing about the NFL is that it doesn't really matter what you are great at, the defenses will ultimately take away what you do best and force you to adapt.
RGIII runs a running, short pass attack. He is usually getting rid of the ball very quickly to a receiver within 10 y of the LOS or he just runs. Will be interesting to see how defenses adjust to him. He also has the #1 rushing attack in the league. What happens if that goes away?
It will be interesting to see how his career goes. I am terrified that I will see him killed in live action one day though. He is easily the most interesting and dynamic QB in awhile. I am not sure he can do it long term, but I won't say he can't.
Luck is one that everyone wants to compare to Peyton, but he is just so much more mobile. He's more like Rodgers and I see him running less as he get's older and taking off only when needed. He's doing it with no running game which is amazing as a rookie. I see him as the best of this group we are talking about long term and the only sure bet.
Kaepernick and Russell both have amazing top 4 running games and ridiculous defenses to lean on. Both are overhyped at this point. Kevin Kolb looked great in 10 games with a great D and good running game in Philly. Just not sold on either.
Locker and Cam I see ultimately as being good, sometimes very good QBs that will have long careers but won't ever win a title.
I would put Alex Smith below that in a needs a good system category.
Vick and Tebow are effectively done.
It is telling that when you look at passing yardage and number of passing TDS right now you have to get down to #13 on each list before you get a "running" styled QB on either list.
I think for some of these guys it's working now, but the NFL has shown season after season that dual threat QBs don't win Super Bowls (Young notwithstanding).
I would like to see RGIII be the one to do it though.
1
Posted on 12/12/12 at 10:25 pm to bobbyray21
So then you would consider Rodgers a dual threat along with Fitzpatrick, Jay Cutler, and Luck. As they have all seasons of 50+ attempts of rushing (Luck will have his first this year)
Posted on 12/12/12 at 10:28 pm to extremetigerfanatic
quote:
Luck is one that everyone wants to compare to Peyton, but he is just so much more mobile. He's more like Rodgers and I see him running less as he get's older and taking off only when needed. He's doing it with no running game which is amazing as a rookie. I see him as the best of this group we are talking about long term and the only sure bet.
Yep. Luck is like guys like Young and Rodgers.cBeing a huge pass threat makes these athletic guys that much more dangerous.
21 of Luck's 49 rush attempts have gone for first downs. His deep passes takes defenders further back, allowing more room to run when he scrambles, much like Rodgers.
Posted on 12/12/12 at 10:28 pm to tduecen
Dual threat to me is any QB that you have to gameplan for teir ability to run
I would include some of those guys in that category
I would include some of those guys in that category
Posted on 12/12/12 at 10:38 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
There are great throwing QBs who can scramble when the pocket collapses. Rodgers, Steve Young, Luck, Rothlisberger etc. These win championships.
Then there are QBs who have actual run plays designed for them who utilize their threat to run to help set up their passing. Vick, RG3, Cam, Russ Wilson. These don't win championships
It seems like people do not understand the difference between a scrambler and a designed runner.
Posted on 12/12/12 at 10:47 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
I would not consider Rodgers a dual threat "running QB"
He runs cuz he has to to avoid sacks and when there is absolutely no option downfield. He wants to stay in the pocket and not run. He's just good at it when he has to.
I would put Roethlisberger and Luck in this category too.
Luck runs 4 times a game including scrambles.
A caveat. I don't consider QBs who drop back make one read and then take off all the time at the drop of a hat true pocket passers either.
He runs cuz he has to to avoid sacks and when there is absolutely no option downfield. He wants to stay in the pocket and not run. He's just good at it when he has to.
I would put Roethlisberger and Luck in this category too.
Luck runs 4 times a game including scrambles.
A caveat. I don't consider QBs who drop back make one read and then take off all the time at the drop of a hat true pocket passers either.
This post was edited on 12/12/12 at 10:49 pm
Posted on 12/12/12 at 11:03 pm to extremetigerfanatic
quote:
I would not consider Rodgers a dual threat "running QB"
He runs cuz he has to to avoid sacks and when there is absolutely no option downfield. He wants to stay in the pocket and not run. He's just good at it when he has to.
I would put Roethlisberger and Luck in this category too.
Luck runs 4 times a game including scrambles.
Yeah, they are "scramblers", not runners. I agree with you.
The running QB's are Cam, Vick, and RG3. Not a model for success IMO.
Posted on 12/12/12 at 11:26 pm to TTsTowel
Long term you need a QB that can stay out of trouble down field and avoid situations that you get injured. No QB can be a long term runner and last in the league. Average time in the league for RB is like 4 years due to the injury factor.
RGIII needs to learn to be a pocket QB and run as a last resort in playoff games.
RGIII needs to learn to be a pocket QB and run as a last resort in playoff games.
Posted on 12/12/12 at 11:44 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
There are great throwing QBs who can scramble when the pocket collapses. Rodgers, Steve Young, Luck, Rothlisberger etc. These win championships.
Then there are QBs who have actual run plays designed for them who utilize their threat to run to help set up their passing. Vick, RG3, Cam, Russ Wilson. These don't win championships
And it's a litte early to say RG3, Cam and Russ Wilson wont win you a championship. Not saying they will, but it's a little early.
This post was edited on 12/12/12 at 11:46 pm
Posted on 12/12/12 at 11:47 pm to TTsTowel
As rules keep being created/redesigned to prevent contact with the QB, it becomes less important to have a qb that is tough or large of frame.
Posted on 12/12/12 at 11:54 pm to TTsTowel
To OP. The main reason I think it's becoming this way is because of the high school offseason training programs now. Players are being trained in high school now like some of the pros were 25 years ago. Overall all the players are becoming more athletic.
Posted on 12/12/12 at 11:56 pm to TTsTowel
Yes because it will be harder to two hand touch them or get their flag in the future
Posted on 12/12/12 at 11:59 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
49 vs 112 rush attempts
537 vs 351 pass attempts
Yes the Redskins are a run first team with a pro bowl RB and maybe the best lead blocker in football.
The Colts are a pass first team with crappy runningbacks and an ELITE WR.
What were you trying to prove?
quote:
Please post the proof. Luck's average pass travels 10 yards downfield, highest in the league. You don't get that average outside the pocket.
Watch the games. Luck leaves the pocket as much as just about any QB in the league
quote:
There are great throwing QBs who can scramble when the pocket collapses. Rodgers, Steve Young, Luck, Rothlisberger etc. These win championships.
Then there are QBs who have actual run plays designed for them who utilize their threat to run to help set up their passing. Vick, RG3, Cam, Russ Wilson. These don't win championships
They are one in the same. When/If RG3 or Cam get a team good enough to win a championship they won't be running designed plays, the fact that they can do it on the crappy teams they are on no s only a plus.
Posted on 12/13/12 at 12:12 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Yes the Redskins are a run first team with a pro bowl RB and maybe the best lead blocker in football. The Colts are a pass first team with crappy runningbacks and an ELITE WR.
Yes, that's my point. The Redskins are a run first team because their running qb isnt capable of slinging it 30+ times a game.
Luck has made Reggie Wayne elite again and turned Donnie Avery and TY Hilton into legit threats. You should watch a game and check out his passing from the pocket. He throws the ball downfield more than any qb. That's a statistical fact. So according to you, he's doing that from the majority of passes outside the pocket.
quote:
They are one in the same. When/If RG3 or Cam get a team good enough to win a championship they won't be running designed plays, the fact that they can do it on the crappy teams they are on no s only a plus.
Yeah, their teams suck when they lose but when they win its because of their QBs lol. You're the same guy who said Tebow sucked at passing because of his WRs, who now look like great with a capable QB.
Posted on 12/13/12 at 1:41 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Yes, that's my point. The Redskins are a run first team because their running qb isnt capable of slinging it 30+ times a game.
Luck has made Reggie Wayne elite again and turned Donnie Avery and TY Hilton into legit threats. You should watch a game and check out his passing from the pocket. He throws the ball downfield more than any qb. That's a statistical fact. So according to you, he's doing that from the majority of passes outside the pocket.
Dude its not about the QBs, RG3 and Luck are VERY similar. If RG3 player for the Colts they would still be pass first offense, If Luck played for the Redskins they would still be a run first offense.
P.S. Reggie Wayne never stopped being an elite WR
quote:
Yeah, their teams suck when they lose but when they win its because of their QBs lol. You're the same guy who said Tebow sucked at passing because of his WRs, who now look like great with a capable QB.
What are you talking about? Can you read?
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