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re: Draft Talk
Posted on 12/28/12 at 10:04 am to STEVED00
Posted on 12/28/12 at 10:04 am to STEVED00
quote:
I think we will need an upgrade at OT even if Bushrod re signs
good idea but prolly a luxury that cannot be afforded.
quote:
trade out of a mid 1st to a late 1st
if a coveted DE isn't there at the right value I could see this happening. That is, if you gauged that the next tier targets could be available 10 picks later. (Mingo or Ansah?) Checking draft picks the Rams could partner well. The late 1st Rd from the Redskins and their mid round 2nd could work for the Saints 1st.
3
Posted on 12/28/12 at 10:10 am to blueslover
quote:
Checking draft picks the Rams could partner well. The late 1st Rd from the Redskins and their mid round 2nd could work for the Saints 1st.
This Saints org. should do this for us fans at least once
Posted on 12/28/12 at 10:46 am to goatmilker
they do it then there will be a shitload here who will be on the "they're friggin idiots for passing on _______" train.
Loomis was given as much grief here for trading up to get Morstead in the 5th Rd as just about any other pick since '06. How did that turn out?
Loomis was given as much grief here for trading up to get Morstead in the 5th Rd as just about any other pick since '06. How did that turn out?
Posted on 12/28/12 at 10:50 am to blueslover
quote:
Loomis was given as much grief here for trading up to get Morstead in the 5th Rd as just about any other pick since '06. How did that turn out?
that decision directly led to our loss to the giants this year!
Posted on 12/28/12 at 12:56 pm to blueslover
quote:
if a coveted DE isn't there at the right value I could see this happening.
Honestly I think DB and DT are more important than DE for the Saints this year. I think the Saints are in decent shape with Gallette and Jordan as your starting DEs. Saints REALLY need to upgrade at DT to have a solid 3 man rotation w/ Hicks and Bunkley (Ellis should be gone).
Posted on 12/28/12 at 12:59 pm to STEVED00
Sorry if this has already been hashed out - but did the NFL "officially and completely" give back the 2nd round pick in the upcoming draft?
ETA: With the rookie pay scale now a days - only puts more emphasis on each draft pick...
ETA: With the rookie pay scale now a days - only puts more emphasis on each draft pick...
This post was edited on 12/28/12 at 1:00 pm
Posted on 12/28/12 at 1:16 pm to STEVED00
quote:
I think the Saints are in decent shape with Gallette and Jordan as your starting DEs
Galette and Tez Wilson both still have potential but neither has yet come close to being an every down player. Galette is RFA too. A player on the other side of Jordan that has to be accounted for every play is not only what I think is the primary missing ingredient for the D but could amp up Jordan's opportunities even more.
quote:
to have a solid 3 man rotation w/ Hicks and Bunkley
I'm pretty happy with Tom Johnson as #3 myself. Liked what I saw of Tyrunn Walker too. A first rounder would prolly mean Hicks reps limited as much or more as this year. I like how Spags has rotated DEs inside on passing downs too.
With an increased pass rush I think all the DBs would look a step change up better. Sacks are not a definitive stat but usually reflect the pressures. Currently the Saints are 27th with 29 sacks. As a % of attempts they are at 4.9%. Top 10 teams are at 6.6% to 8.2%. Preseason I said 40+ sacks would = 13 wins again. I likely will stand by that for next year.
That said, I could see a DB being the BPA. CBs Banks or Rhodes are big and solid. If Harper would leave (doubtful) Vaccaro might be the answer/replacement.
This post was edited on 12/28/12 at 2:23 pm
Posted on 12/28/12 at 2:34 pm to blueslover
I think Miami has 5 picks in the first 75 or something like that. They could be viable partners if we lose and they win this upcoming week
Posted on 12/28/12 at 3:42 pm to DoubleDown
quote:
did the NFL "officially and completely" give back the 2nd round pick in the upcoming draft?
not at all, it is only speculation by many. After how things have gone it may happen but until it does I'm not expecting it.
Posted on 12/29/12 at 1:08 am to blueslover
was watching the Rutgers-Virginia Tech bowl earlier.
Rutgers has a really good LB, Khaseem Greene. He is an outside linebacker who has a nose for the ball. the announcers were talking about how he played free saftey his sophomore year and converted to LB last year. He looks a little small but he is a sure tackler. He seems like a playmaker. I know LB's aren't taken all that high anymore in the draft but damn, this guy looks like he will have an impact where ever he goes. We could use a guy like him on the outside. A few weeks ago CJ Mosely's name was getting thrown around here in the discussion. Well, he's staying put and this guy could very well be the top OLB in his class.
I mean what if we traded a few picks down like you guys were saying earlier in the thread? I'm a fan of drafting a lineman myself but a LB would be the next position I would want after that. I got tired of watching us get gashed against the run this year, I don't know about y'all. We were usually in a nickel defense when offenses took advantage. But there were other times when we had the base 4-3 in there and teams ran off tackle and the OLB's were getting washed out or missing tackles/taking bad angles.
Greene is coming to the Senior Bowl. I can't wait to see what he does.
Edit: another thing about this dude, I didn't see him take hardly any false steps in his reads. He just seemed like a helluva of an instinctive LB.
Rutgers has a really good LB, Khaseem Greene. He is an outside linebacker who has a nose for the ball. the announcers were talking about how he played free saftey his sophomore year and converted to LB last year. He looks a little small but he is a sure tackler. He seems like a playmaker. I know LB's aren't taken all that high anymore in the draft but damn, this guy looks like he will have an impact where ever he goes. We could use a guy like him on the outside. A few weeks ago CJ Mosely's name was getting thrown around here in the discussion. Well, he's staying put and this guy could very well be the top OLB in his class.
I mean what if we traded a few picks down like you guys were saying earlier in the thread? I'm a fan of drafting a lineman myself but a LB would be the next position I would want after that. I got tired of watching us get gashed against the run this year, I don't know about y'all. We were usually in a nickel defense when offenses took advantage. But there were other times when we had the base 4-3 in there and teams ran off tackle and the OLB's were getting washed out or missing tackles/taking bad angles.
Greene is coming to the Senior Bowl. I can't wait to see what he does.
Edit: another thing about this dude, I didn't see him take hardly any false steps in his reads. He just seemed like a helluva of an instinctive LB.
This post was edited on 12/29/12 at 1:29 am
Posted on 12/29/12 at 12:20 pm to LooseCannon22282
Greene sounds interesting, comments from scouting reports-
Bottom Line: Khaseem Greene can develop into a solid starting weakside linebacker in the NFL and should be gone on day two of the draft. I’ve seen comparisons to Lavonte David and I don’t think they are on same level. Greene makes a lot of splash plays but doesn’t have David’s instincts. Too many of Greene’s tackles come down the field. David was making tackle after tackle in the backfield with the ability to read and react with the best of them. Greene doesn’t have those same read and react skills. That said, the guy has a knack for making big plays and can turn games around quickly. He’s an excellent pass rusher as he patiently waits for blockers to engage and then uses his speed/burst to hunt down the quarterback. I think Greene could be a top 50 pick in April’s draft and is an excellent value after pick 50.
LB Khaseem Greene had as dominating a two-year run as the Big East has seen in recent memory, leading the league in tackles with 10.45 per game. He's got 5.5 sacks, picked off two passes, and returned a fumble for a touchdown. In seven of the 12 games, he's had 10 or more tackles. And as a redshirt senior, he's one of the key leaders on the squad.
Greene is a very intriguing prospect on many levels. He is a former safety, but he hardly plays like he has any experience in the defensive backfield. He has great instincts and play-recognition, but he does not attack open gaps unless there is a designed blitz. He fights through trash to make tackles, but they are often being made well beyond the line of scrimmage. He shows potential in coverage, but he can be targeted in the passing game at the next level.
Greene is a contradictory player where he does good and bad things in all areas of his game. It is also worth noting that he is coming off a bad injury in last year’s Pinstripe Bowl that may still be having an impact on his movement skills.
By far, the best part of his game is his ability as a blitzer and on special teams, where he makes a lot of game-changing hits for the Scarlet Knights.
If Greene continues to heal from his injury and get better in coverage, he can possibly make it as a starter in the NFL. For now, he looks like a mid-late round selection that will be a special teams ace in his first few years in the league.
--will be watching for him at the Sr Bowl fo sho
Bottom Line: Khaseem Greene can develop into a solid starting weakside linebacker in the NFL and should be gone on day two of the draft. I’ve seen comparisons to Lavonte David and I don’t think they are on same level. Greene makes a lot of splash plays but doesn’t have David’s instincts. Too many of Greene’s tackles come down the field. David was making tackle after tackle in the backfield with the ability to read and react with the best of them. Greene doesn’t have those same read and react skills. That said, the guy has a knack for making big plays and can turn games around quickly. He’s an excellent pass rusher as he patiently waits for blockers to engage and then uses his speed/burst to hunt down the quarterback. I think Greene could be a top 50 pick in April’s draft and is an excellent value after pick 50.
LB Khaseem Greene had as dominating a two-year run as the Big East has seen in recent memory, leading the league in tackles with 10.45 per game. He's got 5.5 sacks, picked off two passes, and returned a fumble for a touchdown. In seven of the 12 games, he's had 10 or more tackles. And as a redshirt senior, he's one of the key leaders on the squad.
Greene is a very intriguing prospect on many levels. He is a former safety, but he hardly plays like he has any experience in the defensive backfield. He has great instincts and play-recognition, but he does not attack open gaps unless there is a designed blitz. He fights through trash to make tackles, but they are often being made well beyond the line of scrimmage. He shows potential in coverage, but he can be targeted in the passing game at the next level.
Greene is a contradictory player where he does good and bad things in all areas of his game. It is also worth noting that he is coming off a bad injury in last year’s Pinstripe Bowl that may still be having an impact on his movement skills.
By far, the best part of his game is his ability as a blitzer and on special teams, where he makes a lot of game-changing hits for the Scarlet Knights.
If Greene continues to heal from his injury and get better in coverage, he can possibly make it as a starter in the NFL. For now, he looks like a mid-late round selection that will be a special teams ace in his first few years in the league.
--will be watching for him at the Sr Bowl fo sho
Posted on 12/29/12 at 11:18 pm to blueslover
quote:
Khaseem Greene can develop into a solid starting weakside linebacker in the NFL and should be gone on day two of the draft. I’ve seen comparisons to Lavonte David and I don’t think they are on same level. Greene makes a lot of splash plays but doesn’t have David’s instincts. Too many of Greene’s tackles come down the field. David was making tackle after tackle in the backfield with the ability to read and react with the best of them. Greene doesn’t have those same read and react skills. That said, the guy has a knack for making big plays and can turn games around quickly. He’s an excellent pass rusher as he patiently waits for blockers to engage and then uses his speed/burst to hunt down the quarterback.
I think besides playing the same position as David, Greene is also undersized like David is. So naturally they will draw a lot of comparisons. I know we have much bigger needs on the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball but we need a playmaker at every level of the defense. God, I hate that we are at the mercy of Roger Goodell. If he gave us our second round pick back, Greene would be a nice addition to our defense IMO.
I guess they could always move Hawthrone back to the weak side if Vilma isn't retained. Lofton made a few plays this year but Hawthrone's injury really set him back. I thought the D played a lot better when he finally got on the field. Some of that improvement had to with Vilma too but he is clearly not the same player anymore.
This post was edited on 12/29/12 at 11:28 pm
Posted on 12/30/12 at 12:27 am to blueslover
Just as everyone else, I feel that the positions of need are OT, OLB & DE. I think with Bushrod being a free agent & the play of both he & Strief at times this season, its really time to think about drafting an elite tackle.
Even though Charles Brown seems to be injury prone, I think it would be smart to resign him as well. He hasn't gotten many reps over the last few seasons but when he has played while not being injured(he tried to play through being hurt against the Rams in '11) he has really been impressive. He is arguably the most talented tackle currently on the roster. Keeping him around leaves the team with a solid backup for just incase purposes.
Potential DE, OT & OLB have already been discussed but I would like to bring up a possible wildcard if certain players are already gone & the team is forced to go best player available.
I'm really intrigued by the possibilities of the Saints taking Cordarrelle Patterson, WR out of Tennessee. He's a big, fast, athletic wide receiver & I believe he's going to be the next big time receiver to come into the league.
With Devery maybe being done, that would leave Joe Morgan as the only deep threat with experience on the roster. I think Payton values having two speed receivers on the roster that he can trust. With Peterson, not only would they have a big physical speedster but they would get a receiver who can go up to catch passes against one on one coverage. Peterson is the type of wide receiver Drew hasn't had the fortune to play with during his career.
Even though Charles Brown seems to be injury prone, I think it would be smart to resign him as well. He hasn't gotten many reps over the last few seasons but when he has played while not being injured(he tried to play through being hurt against the Rams in '11) he has really been impressive. He is arguably the most talented tackle currently on the roster. Keeping him around leaves the team with a solid backup for just incase purposes.
Potential DE, OT & OLB have already been discussed but I would like to bring up a possible wildcard if certain players are already gone & the team is forced to go best player available.
I'm really intrigued by the possibilities of the Saints taking Cordarrelle Patterson, WR out of Tennessee. He's a big, fast, athletic wide receiver & I believe he's going to be the next big time receiver to come into the league.
With Devery maybe being done, that would leave Joe Morgan as the only deep threat with experience on the roster. I think Payton values having two speed receivers on the roster that he can trust. With Peterson, not only would they have a big physical speedster but they would get a receiver who can go up to catch passes against one on one coverage. Peterson is the type of wide receiver Drew hasn't had the fortune to play with during his career.
Posted on 12/30/12 at 12:30 am to BigBrod81
Charles Brown is still under contract next season. I'm not a fan of his, though, and with the depth at DE this draft, I would be down for drafting Lewan or Fischer. Then look at Lemoiner or Carradine in the 2nd (which I still think we'll get back.)
This post was edited on 12/30/12 at 12:34 am
Posted on 12/30/12 at 12:50 am to THRILLHO
I'm sorry, I thought I read somewhere a few months ago that Brown's contract was up at season's end.
Like I said, I realize that OT, OLB & DE are positions of immediate need but many times drafts go the unexpected route. If Devery & Roby aren't resigned then the only experienced wide receivers on the roster would be Colston, Moore & Morgan. Also both Moore & Colston are closing in on the age of 30.
There are young receivers like Toon waiting in the wings but you simply can't overlook a talent like Peterson if he's staring you in the face. He has the type of talent a team takes as best player available over an area of need.
Like I said, I realize that OT, OLB & DE are positions of immediate need but many times drafts go the unexpected route. If Devery & Roby aren't resigned then the only experienced wide receivers on the roster would be Colston, Moore & Morgan. Also both Moore & Colston are closing in on the age of 30.
There are young receivers like Toon waiting in the wings but you simply can't overlook a talent like Peterson if he's staring you in the face. He has the type of talent a team takes as best player available over an area of need.
This post was edited on 12/30/12 at 12:52 am
Posted on 12/30/12 at 1:00 am to BigBrod81
I wouldn't have a problem with it drafting him as I think this offense can take a step up from all time great to unquestionably the best of all time if we add a dominant #1WR that truly scares offenses. But he's raw and we're going to have too many holes on the defense and at OT to draft him in the first. If he somehow drops to us in the 2nd (assuming we get the pick back) I'd be down for it, but we should be back to being SB contenders next season. We need to draft guys that can step in and play 70%+ snaps. WRs take time to develop and he'd be our #4 WR for at least half the season.
Posted on 12/30/12 at 1:16 am to THRILLHO
He won't have to be the #1 receiver right away but just fill in the roll of deep threat as a rookie. If he would come along with his underneath route running & produce anything outside of being a deep threat, that would just be lagnaippe. He would also have 2-3 seasons be groomed to the #1 receiver inside of the offense.
Posted on 12/30/12 at 10:46 am to BigBrod81
wasn't that familiar with Patterson, looked him up... seeing him ranked anywhere from #31 to 89 on multiple big boards. Still some shaking out to where he ends up in draft value. I wouldn't mind another speedster add to Morgan. Don't think it is 1st Rd time for one though. The consensus top WR that could be in the Saints range is Keenan Allen from Cal. Stranger things have happened tho.
There's been some good discussions in this thread. After today we'll know the exact draft position. I'll start a fresh general draft thread then. We can start looking at individual prospects in more depth as well.
My early odds on favorite to be the Saints pick from the need and who will be available is Sam Montgomery. He may not be the blazing outside speed rusher like an Aldon Smith or Bruce Irvin but I do think he'll be an NFL fixture for a decade.
The OT as a 1st Rder will be clarified before draft day. Bushrod re-signed or another UFA then OT in the 1st Rd is out the window. No Bushrod or UFA then it nearly becomes a must-pick. That is unless Brown can go to LT. I don't see that- but Bushrod to LT had less evidence as a possibility before he took over.
There's been some good discussions in this thread. After today we'll know the exact draft position. I'll start a fresh general draft thread then. We can start looking at individual prospects in more depth as well.
My early odds on favorite to be the Saints pick from the need and who will be available is Sam Montgomery. He may not be the blazing outside speed rusher like an Aldon Smith or Bruce Irvin but I do think he'll be an NFL fixture for a decade.
The OT as a 1st Rder will be clarified before draft day. Bushrod re-signed or another UFA then OT in the 1st Rd is out the window. No Bushrod or UFA then it nearly becomes a must-pick. That is unless Brown can go to LT. I don't see that- but Bushrod to LT had less evidence as a possibility before he took over.
Posted on 12/30/12 at 11:13 am to blueslover
quote:
wasn't that familiar with Patterson, looked him up... seeing him ranked anywhere from #31 to 89 on multiple big boards. Still some shaking out to where he ends up in draft value. I wouldn't mind another speedster add to Morgan.
His announcement of going pro kinda came as a bit of a surprise so I think many of the scouting board maybe behind in scouting his abilities.
Peterson's combine performance will be the type that should move him up the boards. Not only is Peterson an explosive receiver but he is brings that same explosiveness as a returner which is a plus.
I'm not overlooking the fact that there maybe a need for an OT depending on what the organization does with Bushrod. I also realize that DE & OLB are positions of need as well & I wouldn't mind seeing the team add a physical corner like Banks from Miss. St. either but I think the upside for Peterson would be extremely difficult to pass up if he is the best player available when the Saints come up.
Let's face it, our two best wide receivers are getting up there in age. Now is the time to begin preparing for their physical decline. I respect & admire the Payton's & Loomis' ability to find studs later in the draft but sooner or later they will have to take a true #1 receiver in the first or second round.
This post was edited on 12/30/12 at 11:31 am
Posted on 12/30/12 at 11:48 am to BigBrod81
quote:
Cordarrelle Patterson
This would be an interesting pick up. Not too familiar, I mostly just saw his highlights every week, of him breaking off a nice return or catching a bomb. I'd probably be more excited for him in the return game. I think we all believe that this pick should be defense or OT but with CSP back in the saddle, we all know anything could happen.
If we wanted to go for another big receiver, what about the guy who was going to be Patterson's teammate, Da'rick Rogers? Everything I've read about him says that a team has to be willing to take on his "baggage". Any clue as to what all of that is? I know he was kicked off the team but is it a shite storm we should stay away from?
quote:
Sam Montgomery
I completely agree blues, given that I think we'll be stuck in the 17th or 18th slot. The other end prospects have been passing Sam up. I think Ansah will after the combine and maybe even Hunt(I don't think he's better but GM's get crazy).
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