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blueslover 
New Orleans Saints Fan
soon to be south of zero
Member since Sep 2007
18293 posts
| Draft Talk (Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:19 pm)
In the who to pull for thread we saw that currently you could peg the Saints pick most likely at #10-14. Player rankings do not always translate to draft spot but it is a good place to start.
Russ Lande is a proven scout and not just an internet hack. His fresh Top 200 is below. LINK
With that reference the Saints could have a shot at a number of high impact players that fill needs:
-Ansah or Montgomery as DE pass rsuh specialists, I like Demontre Moore as much or more as them myself
-the top rated CB Milliner
-the top rated FS Vaccaro
-the 2nd rated OT Lewan
-another try at a high pick DT pick, Hankins or Richardson
-Teo could be available but dunno if he would work at OLB
Let the conversation begin... ps- #10-14= #74-78 3rd Rd
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Bear Is Dead 
LSU Fan
Monroe
Member since Nov 2007
2169 posts
 Online
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:23 pm to blueslover)
I saw this earlier today. He has Jarvis Jones in the 40's and Tavon Austin going 15th. This list is BS
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Fun Bunch
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
15547 posts
Online
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:34 pm to Bear Is Dead)
He also has his first QB at 33. I'd be willing to bet that 2-3 QBs go before we even pick. Just the way the league is now.
Is Bjoern really that good?
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Neauxla
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2008
24057 posts
Online
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:35 pm to Fun Bunch)
Any word on if we get our 2nd rounder back?
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loyalauron
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Nov 2012
1325 posts
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:39 pm to blueslover)
I really, really want Werner. I was surprised to see him at the top of this list. Most people have him at 10-15. I've watched him all season & seen previous HLs and all I could think was "The Saints need to get him" ..
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UnderhandRabbit
LSU Fan
Franklinton, Louisiana
Member since May 2011
222 posts
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:42 pm to blueslover)
quote:
Mathieu - EX LSU
 
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TigerinATL
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Feb 2005
26614 posts
Online
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:42 pm to Neauxla)
quote:
Any word on if we get our 2nd rounder back?
All indications are no. The league made very clear that something bad went on and they stopped it in the name of player safety. Why do you want to injure innocent players? That's what will happen if the Saints get their pick back.
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loyalauron
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Nov 2012
1325 posts
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/11/12 at 2:49 pm to Fun Bunch)
quote:
Is Bjoern really that good?
Maybe not "best in the draft" good, but he really reminds me of JJ Watt if that's any indication.
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Cajun Invasion
New Orleans Saints Fan
Abbeville, Louisianna
Member since Jan 2012
819 posts
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/11/12 at 3:19 pm to blueslover)
No way Jarvis Jones is the 46th best player, he will definatly go top 15.
I agree Moore or Montgomery would be my first choices imo.
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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
66231 posts
Online
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quote:
he will definatly go top 15.
jj is far from a top 15 LOCK... possibly probably but no way a lock .
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Fleur de Diable
New Orleans Saints Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2010
664 posts
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/11/12 at 4:02 pm to Chad504boy)
Especially with the revelation of his back condition.
Since projections this early aren't really the best indicator, I'm not basing what I'm about to say off of this. However, given the needs of the people ahead of us, I have to believe that one of Werner, Mingo, Montgomery, Moore, or Ansah will be around for the 10-14th selection. Somebody is going to fall in love with Barkley and/or Smith and take them entirely too early. Star and the other two big DTs should get taken early as well. Lastly, the biggest game changer has not even occurred, the combine. Somebody will definitely breakout there, rise up the draft board (cough Dontari Poe) without on field merrit. All of this, I believe, will allow one of these pash rushers to fall to us. Thoughts??
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blueslover
New Orleans Saints Fan
soon to be south of zero
Member since Sep 2007
18293 posts
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As stated to start, Ratings lists are different that draft projections. QBs, LTs, and pass rushing 4-3 DEs and 3-4 OLBs usually have a premium attached that will boost their draft position over their rating position. LBs, Gs, & RBs are now the most downgraded positions draft value-wise. Example of the first is how an Aldon Smith or Bruce Irvin went a lot higher than where they might be rated. Of the second sort this year you might see none or only one of those positions picked in the 1st Rd.
I dunno if I call the Combine a game changer. From what I have read most count it as 20% on the high end of how a player is evaluated- and more commonly 10%.
Finally one more example from drafttek-
Top 32 Big Board Rating
1 +2 Johnathan Hankins Ohio State 6'3" 335 DT43 DT34 0 BIO VID
2 +4 Jarvis Jones Georgia 6'2" 242 OLB34 DE43 -43 BIO VID
3 +2 Star Lotulelei Utah 6'3" 325 DT43 DT34 0 BIO VID
4 +7 Luke Joeckel Texas A&M 6'6" 310 LOT ROT -49 BIO VID
5 -4 Geno Smith West Virginia 6'3" 213 QB BIO VID
6 +3 Dee Milliner Alabama 6'1" 196 CB BIO VID
7 -- Bjoern Werner Florida State 6'4" 273 DE43 OLB34 -4 BIO VID
8 -6 Barkevious Mingo LSU 6'4" 240 OLB34 DE43 -37 BIO VID
9 +10 Manti Te'o Notre Dame 6'2" 255 SILB BIO VID
10 -2 Sam Montgomery LSU 6'4" 248 DE43 OLB34 0 BIO VID
11 +5 Taylor Lewan Michigan 6'7" 302 LOT ROT -112 BIO VID
12 -- Damontre Moore Texas A&M 6'4" 250 DE43 OLB34 -19 BIO VID
13 -3 Keenan Allen California 6'3" 205 WRF WRP 0 BIO VID
14 +4 Jonathan Jenkins Georgia 6'3" 351 DT34 DT43 0 BIO VID
15 +13 Johnthan Banks Mississippi State 6'1" 185 CB BIO VID
16 -1 Barrett Jones Alabama 6'4" 312 OC OG -3 BIO VID
17 -- Eric Reid LSU 6'2" 208 FS BIO VID
18 +2 Chance Warmack Alabama 6'3" 320 OG BIO VID
19 -5 Xavier Rhodes Florida State 6'1" 215 CB BIO VID
20 +2 C.J. Mosley Alabama 6'2" 235 WILB OLB43 0 BIO VID
21 +2 Tyler Eifert Notre Dame 6'5" 249 TE BIO VID
22 -18 Matt Barkley USC 6'2" 220 QB BIO VID
23 -2 Terrance Williams Baylor 6'1" 190 WRF BIO VID
24 +2 Giovani Bernard North Carolina 5'10" 205 RBF BIO VID
25 -- Eric Fisher Central Michigan 6'7" 305 LOT BIO --
26 -2 Jordan Poyer Oregon State 5'11" 190 CB BIO VID
27 +7 Jesse Williams Alabama 6'3" 320 DE34 DT43 0 BIO VID
28 -1 Robert Woods USC 6'1" 184 WRF BIO VID
29 +1 D.J. Fluker Alabama 6'6" 335 ROT BIO VID
30 +5 Alex Okafor Texas 6'4" 260 OLB34 DE43 -33 BIO VID
31 +2 Dion Jordan Oregon 6'6" 246 DE43 OLB34 0 BIO VID
32 -3 Tyler Wilson Arkansas 6'3" 215 QB
Then compare with a Mock Projection of Round 1-
Geno Smith, Hankins, Werner, Milliner, Lotulelei, Joeckel, Montgomery, Teo, Banks, Jones, Moore, Allen, Rhodes, Mosley, Jenkins*Saints
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LSUsCRYSTALball
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2012
1697 posts
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/11/12 at 10:50 pm to blueslover)
There is work to be done
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saintsfan22
New Orleans Saints Fan
baton rouge
Member since May 2006
19937 posts
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/11/12 at 11:03 pm to blueslover)
quote:
As stated to start, Ratings lists are different that draft projections. QBs, LTs, and pass rushing 4-3 DEs and 3-4 OLBs usually have a premium attached that will boost their draft position over their rating position.
Yeah but the guy in the OP had Jones and Mingo in the mid 2nd. It's one thing for premium spots to be drafted higher than ratings but that guy's waaaay off.
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Sir Saint 
LA-Lafayette Fan
1 post
Member since Jun 2010
4923 posts
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/11/12 at 11:20 pm to blueslover)
He has Zach Mettenberger on there 
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Meateye
New Orleans Saints Fan
Music Kills The Pain
Member since Mar 2007
6387 posts
Online
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:15 am to Sir Saint)
LINK /thread
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SouljaBreauxTellEm
LSU Fan
Mizz
Member since Aug 2009
20827 posts
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:19 am to blueslover)
quote:
Teo could be available but dunno if he would work at OLB
I can't see him there. and Walterfootball destroys this guy. Don't care if he's a scout.
LINK
I really enjoy his mocks and he constantly is updating it.
This post was edited on 12/12 at 12:22 am
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blueslover
New Orleans Saints Fan
soon to be south of zero
Member since Sep 2007
18293 posts
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:20 am to saintsfan22)
quote:
Yeah but the guy in the OP had Jones and Mingo in the mid 2nd. It's one thing for premium spots to be drafted higher than ratings but that guy's waaaay off.
No he didn't have them in the 2nd. It's a Top 200 not a mock. That is exactly what I was trying clarify. Like the second group has Mingo as #8 on their big board but going #21.
And it is just an initial ranking in December before bowl games, combine, or the all star games, There's a lot of shakeout yet to be had. After those things you will start seeing a lot more consensus. For now it is just one way early list to start conversation from, not define things from.
This time in 2010 Martez Wilson was commonly found as a potential first round prospect and Aldon Smith was a 2nd or 3rd Rd project. They ended up exactly opposite by draft time. One to watch in that regard this year is Sheldon Richardson DT Mizzou. You prolly can find equally as many who see him as a 3rd Rder vs. Top 15. By February that will likely be much clearer one way or another.
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saintsfan22
New Orleans Saints Fan
baton rouge
Member since May 2006
19937 posts
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:28 am to blueslover)
quote:
No he didn't have them in the 2nd. It's a Top 200 not a mock. That is exactly what I was trying clarify. Like the second group has Mingo as #8 on their big board but going #21.
Ok his top 200 is waaay off.
quote:
And it is just an initial ranking in December before bowl games, combine, or the all star games, There's a lot of shakeout yet to be had. After those things you will start seeing a lot more consensus.
There's pretty much a consensus now and that guy's far away from it.
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blueslover
New Orleans Saints Fan
soon to be south of zero
Member since Sep 2007
18293 posts
| re: Draft Talk (Posted on 12/12/12 at 1:10 am to saintsfan22)
quote:
There's pretty much a consensus now
Simply disagree, in fact the majority of reputable draft sites don't even have ranks or mocks out yet.
Like Sheldon Richardson that I mentioned-
Big Board/Mock
Walter 9/13 (to Saints)
Draft Countdown -/30
Drafttek 65/76
Great Blue North 20/12 (to Saints)
CBS (Rang) 15/13 (to Saints)
FFToolbox (DeLima) 23/25
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