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re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy
Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:25 pm to FightinTigersDammit
Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:25 pm to FightinTigersDammit
I know...apples and oranges, yada, yada, yada.
But if Joe Namath can be in the pro football HOF, then Dale Murphy can be in the baseball HOF. Seriously, have you ever looked at Namath's statistics? 50 percent completion percentage, 40 more INTs than TDs, one other playoff appearance, two winning seasons overall.
Or if you want apples and apples, go look at Don Drysdale. 200 wins. 2 dominant seasons. The rest of it was good but not great in a dominant pitcher era.
But if Joe Namath can be in the pro football HOF, then Dale Murphy can be in the baseball HOF. Seriously, have you ever looked at Namath's statistics? 50 percent completion percentage, 40 more INTs than TDs, one other playoff appearance, two winning seasons overall.
Or if you want apples and apples, go look at Don Drysdale. 200 wins. 2 dominant seasons. The rest of it was good but not great in a dominant pitcher era.
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Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:28 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
But Kirby Puckett is in, and I’d say Murphy was a better player than Puckett, who also had a short career. Puckett hit 318/360/477 and had 207 HR and 134 SB. Those are pretty close rate stats only Murphy had better counting numbers and, of course, superior defense and those 5 Gold Gloves. Puckett has the edge in postseason heroics, which count.
Puckett is in and Rice, Dawson, etc. How in the hell can the writers, with a clear conscience, not put Murph in. Its a travesty he is not in already!
Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:30 pm to 3amigosanddad
quote:
Puckett is in and Rice, Dawson, etc. How in the hell can the writers, with a clear conscience, not put Murph in. Its a travesty he is not in already!
4 wrongs don't make a right?
Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:31 pm to Baloo
To me Murphy=Bagwell.
Both are border line. I've never bought into the arguement that since a lesser player (Rice) is in all other border line players should get in. As a Reds fans I hated that both were in the divison, but I repsected both of them.
I wouldn't have a problem with either one getting in, but I believe Raines & Walker had better careers.
Both are border line. I've never bought into the arguement that since a lesser player (Rice) is in all other border line players should get in. As a Reds fans I hated that both were in the divison, but I repsected both of them.
I wouldn't have a problem with either one getting in, but I believe Raines & Walker had better careers.
Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:31 pm to 3amigosanddad
quote:
Puckett is in and Rice, Dawson, etc. How in the hell can the writers, with a clear conscience, not put Murph in. Its a travesty he is not in already!
simply put, all he has to hang his hat on is the 2 MVPs he won.
the other guys have more to hang their hat on, mainly prolonged success at a high level
Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:34 pm to Baloo
Mattingly before Dale
Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:40 pm to Baloo
Hell yes he should, he is one of the best individual players of that era!
Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:44 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
To me Murphy=Bagwell.
Pick a stat, Bagwell was better.
Counting stats and ratio stats.
More runs, hits, doubles, HR, RBI, walks, SB
Higher AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+
Murphy won the MVP twice to Bagwell's one... that's about it.
Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:48 pm to tduecen
I will never understand the obsession with Mattingly. He was good, but he's clearly not a Hall of Famer. I at least get the Keith Hernandez partisans, even if I think they are wrong. Mattingly is the one Yankee who DIDN'T win. And it's not like his numbers are that great. He was a very good player, but he's no Fred McGriff or Will Clark.
Murphy has about 398 HR to hang his hat on. He was a great player for a decade, and maybe THE greatest of his time period. He was widely viewed as a HOF caliber player while active. And then the bottom fell out. He is being kept out because of his decline phase.
While I don't want borderline guys to be the standard for future bad selection, Murphy was on the ballot WITH these players. He was their contemporary. We're not comparing him to King Kelly here. How can the same voters induct Rice and NOT Murphy? That's what kills me. Murphy belongs not beause he compares well to the worst Hall of Famers, but because he compares well to the AVERAGE Hall of Famer. He fits right in the middle of those inducted. He was that caliber of player.
Murphy has about 398 HR to hang his hat on. He was a great player for a decade, and maybe THE greatest of his time period. He was widely viewed as a HOF caliber player while active. And then the bottom fell out. He is being kept out because of his decline phase.
While I don't want borderline guys to be the standard for future bad selection, Murphy was on the ballot WITH these players. He was their contemporary. We're not comparing him to King Kelly here. How can the same voters induct Rice and NOT Murphy? That's what kills me. Murphy belongs not beause he compares well to the worst Hall of Famers, but because he compares well to the AVERAGE Hall of Famer. He fits right in the middle of those inducted. He was that caliber of player.
Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:49 pm to LSUBoo
Get that Astros shite out of here. Instead of just comparing players, compare eras. The 80's were nearly another dead ball era.
Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:50 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
Pick a stat, Bagwell was better.
Bagwell also played in the most offensively oriented era ever. You have to take all 90s numbers with a grain of salt.
That said, I do believe Bagwell is better. But you have to make an era adjustment.
Posted on 11/29/12 at 2:54 pm to Dale Murphy
quote:
Get that Astros shite out of here. Instead of just comparing players, compare eras. The 80's were nearly another dead ball era.
There's a reason Bagwell got 56% of the votes last year and Dale Murphy hasn't ever received above 25%... they aren't really comparable.
Bagwell >> Murphy
He's one of the 10 best first basemen ever, and played in the Astrodome for almost his whole career.
Posted on 11/29/12 at 3:02 pm to LSUBoo
It's because voters are like everyone else. They like offensive explosions regardless of the era, unless your name has been tainted with steroids. Plain and simple.
Posted on 11/29/12 at 3:03 pm to Lester Earl
I say no to Murphy. really good player like many others not in the Hall
Posted on 11/29/12 at 3:03 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
and played in the Astrodome for almost his whole career.
2800 PA in Astrodome 126 HR
1800 PA in Minute Maid 108 HR
Posted on 11/29/12 at 3:05 pm to barry
quote:
2800 PA in Astrodome 126 HR
1800 PA in Minute Maid 108 HR
Shut your face!
Alright, I really thought it was more than that. I guess I forget how long Minute Maid has really been there.
Still even with his era, and playing more games in the Astrodome, his OPS+ is better than Dale Murphy.
Posted on 11/29/12 at 3:13 pm to LSUBoo
How can a player who was the best in the majors over a 10 year span (I don't know if you'd define that an "era")not get into the Hall?
Dale Murphy should be in the Hall of Fame. It's a shame he isn't.
Dale Murphy should be in the Hall of Fame. It's a shame he isn't.
Posted on 11/29/12 at 3:17 pm to LSUBoo
Murphy played in the 80s, Bagwell in the 90s
Murphy was a gold glove center fielder, Bagwell was a first baseman.
You can't compare them
Murphy was a gold glove center fielder, Bagwell was a first baseman.
You can't compare them
Posted on 11/29/12 at 3:21 pm to The White Lobster
quote:
Bagwell was a first baseman.
A gold glove first baseman, mind you. Well, once.
quote:
You can't compare them
I agree.
Posted on 11/29/12 at 3:21 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
Back-to-back MVPs is pretty stout, though. Few people remember Maris won the MVP the year BEFORE he hit 61...its not like he had one great season
Maris for Hall of Fame before Murphy.
Honestly, both should be in the "Hall of Pretty Good"
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