Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical? | Page 6 | TigerDroppings.com

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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46304 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


quote:

It mainly came from a government hell bent on carrying on an illegal draft.


How was it illegal? Were all US drafts illegal or just the one for Viet Nam?

But you are correct the opposition was based upon the draft and the personal ramifications, not the geopolitical nuances of the conflict and era.






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diat150
Tulane Fan
OPELOUSAS
Member since Jun 2005
19265 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


Im sure my dad could care less about any negative treatment he received back then, but I can guarantee that he cares about the crappy VA treatment he gets and the lollygagging the govt is pulling with his agent orange benefits.





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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46304 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


quote:

Im sure my dad could care less about any negative treatment he received back then, but I can guarantee that he cares about the crappy VA treatment he gets and the lollygagging the govt is pulling with his agent orange benefits.


Sounds like BS to me, for over three decades any of about 50 diseases remotely possibly related to agent orange have been fast tracked for immediate classification as service connected. If you got a disease and a DD214 tht shows you were anywhere near the use of agent orange you are covered.






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themunch
LSU Fan
At home/ at work/ it's all the same
Member since Jan 2007
10894 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


How was it illegal? Were all US drafts illegal or just the one for Viet Nam?

The draft as stated in law is to be instituted after a declaration of war. The government ran the draft with no such declaration. Thereby rendering the draft illegal.


quote:

It held that the Constitution's grant to Congress of the powers to declare war and to create standing armies included the power to mandate conscription.


Later, during the Vietnam War, a lower appellate court also concluded that the draft was constitutional. United States v. Holmes, 387 F.2d 781 (7th Cir.), cert. denied, 391 U.S. 936
quote:

(1968).[15] (Justice William O. Douglas, in voting to hear the appeal in Holmes, agreed that the government had the authority to employ conscription in wartime, but argued that the constitutionality of a draft in the absence of a declaration of war was an open question, which the Supreme Court should address.)



The government allowing itself to self govern even though it was not in the constitution as such.



This post was edited on 11/25 at 7:52 am


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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46304 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


quote:

The draft as stated in law is to be instituted after a declaration of war.


Link to that load of crap? There is no such law.

FYI we had drafts for decades when there was not even a war, and the Supreme Court upheld the draft during all periods of its use whenever challenged.

You don't have a clue what you are writing about.

ETA

Your edit didn't prove jack, dicta by Justice Douglas isn't persuasive, and your statement the
quote:

government allowing itself to self govern even though it was not in the constitution as such.
is stupid and meaningless.

Why don't you use words that mean something, what next emoticoms?




This post was edited on 11/25 at 7:57 am


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themunch
LSU Fan
At home/ at work/ it's all the same
Member since Jan 2007
10894 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


Link to that load of crap? There is no such law.








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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46304 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


Unless, you are admitting you are a masochist, I don't understand your use of the emoticom?

You remain legally and factually wrong.






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Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
120729 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


quote:


But you are correct the opposition was based upon the draft and the personal ramifications, not the geopolitical nuances of the conflict and era.


Interesting

I definitely believe you but that isn't really the narrative that I grew up hearing






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cssamerican
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2011
2288 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


quote:

here were protests when many of these guys came home and they were called baby killers



Is this not accurate?

The war was started by a false flag. No no.. don't argue. Its officially recognized that we fired first at Gulf of Tonkin. The lie that we told our people is the reason we we're allowed to go to war.

The war started on a false premise and a large amount of our soldiers represented our country very poorly. Of course people weren't going to receive them kindly, I'm glad.

I don't care how the war started, a soldier never started a war, so if you have a problem with the war blame the political people in charge not the soldiers.

To the baby killer stuff, watch your friends be killed by kids with bombs then see if you would shoot a kid if you feared one had a bomb. People are such hypocrites, I will never judge someone who is put into that situation, because I know I would do whatever I thought it took for me to make it home, and so would just about anyone else. People who go to war are seldom proud of what they did, but they did what they had to do.

I have an uncle who served in WWII, and the only thing he has ever told me about it was, "Don't believe anyone who said the Holocaust didn't happen, because I am telling you it did. I buried the bodies." And this was after something on TV about the that idiot in Iran approximately 65 years after the war. There wasn't people calling him a baby killer; however, he isn't proud about anything he did, he was just happy to make it home alive and in one piece.






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themunch
LSU Fan
At home/ at work/ it's all the same
Member since Jan 2007
10894 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


It was left to further interpretation and deemed legal in the way it was interpreted at the time.

Why would it be necessary to have a draft just to fill an army if no war was imminent? Why have they since gone to an all volunteer effort? The government knows that shite don't fly.

It almost caused a revolution in the US. But I am just an ex-soldier, ex-hippie, ex-radical. I lived it.

Just because I needed to know how the government made law to further reduce the impact of the constitution as law of the land.


War was imminent.

On this day in 1940, President Franklin D. Roosevelt signs the Selective Service and Training Act, which requires all male citizens between the ages of 26 and 35 to register for the military draft, beginning on October 16. The act had been passed by Congress 10 days earlier.

America was not yet involved in the Second World War, but Roosevelt considered it a prudent step to train American men for military service in case the U.S. would have to defend itself against the growing threat of fascist and militarist regimes in Europe and Japan. At the time, Poland, Holland, Belgium, France and Norway had been invaded by Germany and word had begun to spread of Hitler's persecution of Jews and other minorities in concentration camps. It appeared that Great Britain would be next on the list of Nazi casualties. From July 1940, Hitler's Air Force bombarded England and the German navy blockaded the island nation in preparation for a planned invasion.

Roosevelt responded to British distress by selling the country more military equipment and providing increased humanitarian aid. After signing the Selective Service Act, Roosevelt warned, "America stands at the crossroads of its destiny. Time and distance have been shortened. A few weeks have seen great nations fall. We cannot remain indifferent to the philosophy of force now rampant in the world. We must and will marshal our great potential strength to fend off war from our shores. We must and will prevent our land from becoming a victim of aggression."

Although many Americans preferred to stay out of another conflict in Europe--World War I was still fresh in many minds--there was little resistance to the draft and, in the end, the measure might have been unnecessary. After the Japanese bombed Hawaii's Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, American men flocked to recruitment centers to enlist in the military.



This post was edited on 11/25 at 8:24 am


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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46304 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


quote:

It was left to further interpretation and deemed legal in the way it was interpreted at the time.


The fact is it was never found to be illegal in spite of repeated attempts no matter how you try to spin it.

quote:

Why would it be necessary to have a draft just to fill an army if no war was imminent?


That is the decision of Congress, how imminent does war have to be to trigger your imaginary justification for a draft?

quote:

It almost caused a revolution in the US. But I am just an ex-soldier, ex-hippie, ex-radical. I lived it.


Proof experience isn't such a great teacher?







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AFtigerFan
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2008
744 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


quote:

What have I said that is untrue? Thanks.


quote:

For instance, my brother in law did ROTC. He had his college paid for, got a great living allowance while in school, so he could afford to have a nice apartment, eat well, and drink plenty of beer. Now he spends his service time living in a beach side condo in FLA. He gets overpaid, plus get's a housing and food allowance, meaning he pockets everything he makes... and he'll be blindly slobbered over the same way someone who fought in battle.


Well this for one. An ROTC cadet gets up to $1,500 a YEAR in allowances. So that's around $200 a month. I'm sure that paid for his "nice apartment", beer and eating well That's a gross misstatement by you. What else have you exaggerated?

And he chooses to SPEND his housing allowance on a beach side condo (and I'm sure its near his base). He doesn't pocket all the money like you said. Unless someone is letting him live there for free. Another exaggeration by you. You sound like you just don't like him and are making shite up because of it.

You say he's overpaid. That's your opinion, not a fact. What is his career field, and where us he stationed? How long has he been in? He hasn't deployed yet, and maybe this is his first assignment. That does t mean he won't deploy, nor does it mean he won't PCS to some shite hole either. You sound like a miserable wretch.

ETA: not all ROTC cadets get their school paid for (and the $200 allowance). Only those that earn the ROTC scholarship get that.



This post was edited on 11/25 at 8:46 am


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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
41708 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


quote:

You're a dick.


No doubt mograback is an annoying twerp. But you shouldn't take him . . .

quote:

Seriously.


He's either a troll who spends an inordinate amount of time on his hobby. Or he is cuckoo. Maybe he's both.

As far as the OP is concerned, I think there were instances where some returning soldiers were treated with disrespect. I don't think it could be said to be the norm. But by that time the Vietnam War was pretty much universally hated, and the returning guys were certainly didn't receive the "conquering hero" welcome that occurred after Desert Storm.


ETA: For an excellent example of a combination of mograback's "intellectual acumen", ahem, and black helicopter fantasy, I commend all of you to his now classic 9/11 thread.



This post was edited on 11/25 at 8:49 am


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lsewwww
Member since Feb 2009
146 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?



Here's a good link by real veterans since this thread turned a little OT on you.
LINK

The treatment was not a myth. Its been generalized for sure but saying its a myth is implying it never happened. Lots of weirdos around Berkely at the time. The counter-culture of the early 70s shows what violence they were capable of. Insulting a soldier was nothing for some of these people.



This post was edited on 11/25 at 9:17 am


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RollTide1987
Alabama Fan
Aurora, CO
Member since Nov 2009
25119 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


quote:

It's no secret we weren't very well behaved in Vietnam. Enough so that there was a strong perception created about our soldiers.



Soldiers misbehave in every war. It was just more prevalent in Vietnam because the war was so unpopular and the press was looking for dirt to print. My grandfather's unit on Okinawa refused to give quarter at one point in the battle and killed a few Japanese soldiers (and possibly civilians) who tried to surrender to them.






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Porky
Arkansas Fan
Member since Aug 2008
12879 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


One of the problems for vets returning from Vietnam was related to finding employment. Being a WWII vet, my dad would usually hire them whenever possible. We both were opposed to the Vietnam War but not the soldiers. They had just been doing what they had to do and many believed in what they were doing. I can respect that even though I despised the war.


This post was edited on 11/25 at 10:53 am


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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46304 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


quote:

One of the problems for vets returning from Vietnam was related to finding employment.


link?







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Porky
Arkansas Fan
Member since Aug 2008
12879 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


The only link I have is my memory.





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themunch
LSU Fan
At home/ at work/ it's all the same
Member since Jan 2007
10894 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


The fact is it was never found to be illegal in spite of repeated attempts.

It was deemed so by the government. I can follow along can you?

Congress would not declare war, it is why we were not able to continue with bombing Hanoi and invading the north of Vietnam. I think having troops in conflict to the extent the US had is reason enough to declare it war. The inaction of Congress caused us to fail and cost lives.

The soldiers never got the full support of the government or the people.

Experience has taught me plenty sir.

quote:

but argued that the constitutionality of a draft in the absence of a declaration of war was an open question,


so i continue to question...it is my duty as a citizen, it is how they educated me and taught me I should do.



This post was edited on 11/25 at 3:44 pm


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lsu13lsu
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2008
2037 posts

re: Was the treatment of Vietnam soldiers returning home somewhat mythical?


You ask

quote:

Please quote me in this thread where I praised the disrespect our soldiers received during Vietnam.


I provide your quote

quote:

Of course people weren't going to receive them kindly, I'm glad


LOL






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