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Started By
Message
Any Referees? Question about "Forward Progress"
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:10 am
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:10 am
I have a genuine question about the application of the principle of "forward progress" yesterday in two cases. I would love for someone who has been trained and works as a referee to offer an opinion. There must be a couple on here.
1) The biggest one is the fumble. Seems that the ball was stripped while the runner was still fighting to get back forward and prior to the whistle. If he had broken free, he would have been allowed to gain more yards.
2) On a punt a little later the Arkansas player received the ball at around the 38 but while moving backwards. He proceeded to fall on his honey-bone after not being touched and land on the 35 yard line. He was awarded forward progress and the ball was spotted at the 38. Seems like because he was moving back of his own volition that the ball should have been spotted at the place he landed.
Were the rules applied correctly in these two situations? Please help!
Thanks!!
And GEAUX AUBURN!
1) The biggest one is the fumble. Seems that the ball was stripped while the runner was still fighting to get back forward and prior to the whistle. If he had broken free, he would have been allowed to gain more yards.
2) On a punt a little later the Arkansas player received the ball at around the 38 but while moving backwards. He proceeded to fall on his honey-bone after not being touched and land on the 35 yard line. He was awarded forward progress and the ball was spotted at the 38. Seems like because he was moving back of his own volition that the ball should have been spotted at the place he landed.
Were the rules applied correctly in these two situations? Please help!
Thanks!!
And GEAUX AUBURN!
7
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:12 am to Tiger Phil
Just when u think Aub. pays the Ref's. best along comes Ar-Kansas! 
:rimshot: 
:rimshot: 
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:15 am to Tiger Phil
Agreed.
The fumble was bang bang with the whistle. But that punt should have been spotted where his arse hit the turf. He went back all on his own just like Reggie Bush
The fumble was bang bang with the whistle. But that punt should have been spotted where his arse hit the turf. He went back all on his own just like Reggie Bush
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:16 am to cajunjj
I'm sorry. I though the length of my post would keep the silliness to a minimum.
I'm looking for actual serious responses, please.
Am I asking too much?
I'm looking for actual serious responses, please.
Am I asking too much?
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:20 am to Tiger Phil
SEC football officials are the worst in the nation. We have a family friend who worked for the SEC for several years as a referee and left the conference in disgust saying the conference is not only satisfied with poorly officiated games but seems to reward and protect the worst of the worst.
SEC fans and players deserve better.
SEC fans and players deserve better.
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:21 am to Erin Go Bragh
Can you ask him to comment on those two calls from yesterday?!
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:21 am to Tiger Phil
Arky RB was running sideways, not forward or backward. If he would have broken free he would have been given a TD
The punt return play was just wtong
The punt return play was just wtong
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:22 am to Erin Go Bragh
quote:
the conference is not only satisfied with poorly officiated games but seems to reward and protect the worst of the worst.
Damn, I didn't know SEC refs were union.
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:27 am to Tiger Phil
While I havent been an official, I have coached at the LHSAA 5A level before...
forward progress is a pure judgement call by the official based on the defense having full control of the ball carrier and no other yardage can be gained.
Its mostly to maintain player safety so that a defense doesnt hold up a ball carrier in order to continue to hit him or strip the ball...
Yesterday, the side judge had marked his forward progress before Reid stripped the ball but he did not blow the whistle....that is just them being human. The officials know the call they see, they juts sometimes hold the whistle.
I agree that if he would have broken loose of the tackle prior to the whistle, he may have been allowed to gain yardage.
forward progress is a pure judgement call by the official based on the defense having full control of the ball carrier and no other yardage can be gained.
Its mostly to maintain player safety so that a defense doesnt hold up a ball carrier in order to continue to hit him or strip the ball...
Yesterday, the side judge had marked his forward progress before Reid stripped the ball but he did not blow the whistle....that is just them being human. The officials know the call they see, they juts sometimes hold the whistle.
I agree that if he would have broken loose of the tackle prior to the whistle, he may have been allowed to gain yardage.
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:28 am to BigHeadTigerFan
Late hit on Mingo, no calls holding on Mingo were terrible. The out of bounds kick off shows everyone that SEC refs are a joke. The false start on LSUs fumble might be the only they got right.
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:28 am to Tiger Phil
I asked this same question regarding the punt-catch spot in another thread; I hope someone answers you here. I thought if you back-pedal w/o being touched, forward progress does not apply, and I don't think there was any 'fair-catch' signal involved, either.
So, if a QB was in the shotgun, takes a snap while back-pedaling, and loses his balance and goes down, he'd be marked down where he landed, not where he stumbled, right? Seems to be the same circumstances fielding that punt...it seemed wrong.
So, if a QB was in the shotgun, takes a snap while back-pedaling, and loses his balance and goes down, he'd be marked down where he landed, not where he stumbled, right? Seems to be the same circumstances fielding that punt...it seemed wrong.
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:32 am to athletemed
quote:
Yesterday, the side judge had marked his forward progress before Reid stripped the ball but he did not blow the whistle....that is just them being human. The officials know the call they see, they juts sometimes hold the whistle.
I agree that if he would have broken loose of the tackle prior to the whistle, he may have been allowed to gain yardage.
So I suppose that the call on the fumble could be correct, then.
What about the punt call?
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:35 am to Tiger Phil
quote:
1) The biggest one is the fumble. Seems that the ball was stripped while the runner was still fighting to get back forward and prior to the whistle. If he had broken free, he would have been allowed to gain more yards.
I was always under the impression the play was dead after the whistle. On the replay the whistle is blown after reed has possession!
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:44 am to Tiger Phil
quote:
What about the punt call?
Punt call was right as well...
If a returner has his momentum going backward and is down by contact or down by touchback, the ball is awarded at the point where he first caught the ball or is awarded a touchback if his momentum carries him into the endzone.
For example....on a kickoff...the returner is positioned at the 5...he receives the kick on the 2 with his momentum going backward with the force of the kick driving him into the endzone...its a touchback...although he initially caught the ball in the field of play..
main point of the rule is to benefit the receiving team and not penalize them with adverse field position.
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:45 am to Oyster
Refs blew it. You play to the whistle blows the ball dead. If some how the player breaks free and scores the forward progress issue is null. My question, was it something that could be challenged? I think the whistle did end the play but only after fumble had been recovered. Maybe More knowledgeable people than me will explain it for us.
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:48 am to athletemed
Thanks for the knowledgeable replies. Helps to know the rules and not just rant at "IDIOT OFFICIALS".
I therefore conclude that both calls could have been correct. The punt call was absolutely correct, while the fumble call could have been called either way based on the judgment of the referee.
I therefore conclude that both calls could have been correct. The punt call was absolutely correct, while the fumble call could have been called either way based on the judgment of the referee.
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:49 am to tigerprl
quote:
My question, was it something that could be challenged? I
That was my feeling too. I don't know, maybe LSU didn't have any challenges left.
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:52 am to Oyster
I don't think it could be challenged, because it was a "judgment" call by the linesman. He judged forward progress to have been stopped, and you can't replay what his interpretation was...
As the previous poster said, the ref knows what he saw, they just sometimes hold their whistle.
As the previous poster said, the ref knows what he saw, they just sometimes hold their whistle.
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:54 am to Tiger Phil
at the schools I was affiliated with, there were some on staff who were certified LHSAA officials that never officiated games.
The idea was to tell the HC what the rule should have been and how it should have been enforced.
Came in handy with those dead ball fouls and accompanying yardage spots.
The crews that did our games knew damn good and well that the coaching staff the rules as well as they did....it made a difference.
Posted on 11/24/12 at 9:54 am to Tiger Phil
You have to remember that calls go back many years and were based on the common practice at that time.
The official clearly had his right arm up prior to the fumble. The play is dead not upon the whistle, but when the official determines it is dead. This goes back to when officials wore the whistles on a lanyard around their necks and sometimes lost their whistle during a play or could not use it in a timely manner.
The arm up signaled the play dead. On the punt return, the butt on the ground was the spot.
The official clearly had his right arm up prior to the fumble. The play is dead not upon the whistle, but when the official determines it is dead. This goes back to when officials wore the whistles on a lanyard around their necks and sometimes lost their whistle during a play or could not use it in a timely manner.
The arm up signaled the play dead. On the punt return, the butt on the ground was the spot.
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