AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM | Page 6 | TigerDroppings.com

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Ace Midnight
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re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

If you respect American values, then you should defend the plight of Palestinian Arabs and not side with Israeli aparthied. This is my whole problem - our governement supporting aparthied.


I do respect American values. I don't like aparthied. I feel great sympathy for the Palestinian people. However, the siege foisted on Israel by the greater Arab "alliance", and the shameless exploitation of the Palestinian plight by Arab leaders in the region (for their own, no-good ends) have forced the Israelis to behave as they have.

You know when the walls go up and the checkpoint guards are strict, violence by Palestinians on Israelis and terrorism within Israel goes down. I don't think anybody likes it, but there it is. A small, violent minority of Palestinians keeps all of them in chains, essentially.

The vote for Hamas in Gaza was also not in their best interests. Unfortunately, you reap what you sow.






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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46310 posts

re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

I don't think anybody likes it, but there it is.


Zionist and zionist enablers like it, and justify it, crimes and repression to maintain an occupation is justified by people that endorse ethnic cleansing, torture, and deprivation of human rights.







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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
18595 posts

re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

I do respect American values. I don't like aparthied. I feel great sympathy for the Palestinian people. However, the siege foisted on Israel by the greater Arab "alliance", and the shameless exploitation of the Palestinian plight by Arab leaders in the region (for their own, no-good ends) have forced the Israelis to behave as they have.

You know when the walls go up and the checkpoint guards are strict, violence by Palestinians on Israelis and terrorism within Israel goes down. I don't think anybody likes it, but there it is. A small, violent minority of Palestinians keeps all of them in chains, essentially.

The vote for Hamas in Gaza was also not in their best interests. Unfortunately, you reap what you sow.

It's disheartening that less than 70 years after the Holocaust, less than 50 years after Jim Crow, and less than 20 years after apartheid South Africa, that there are still folks like you who still try to rationalize things for which there is no moral justification. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.






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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
18595 posts

re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

If you respect American values, then you should defend the plight of Palestinian Arabs and not side with Israeli aparthied. This is my whole problem - our governement supporting aparthied.

Keep in mind that the U.S. was the last holdout of major nations supporting South African apartheid, so the fact that we're the only supporting Israeli apartheid shouldn't come as such a big surprise.






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SammyTiger
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Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
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re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


You connot compair Israel to Nazi Germany, Jim Crow, or Apartheid Africa. Just like all of those situations are differnt, ISrael and Palestine's situation is differnt. If we need to point out the differences again I can, but it is annoying to have to keep bringing them up because you choose to ignore them in favor of your buzzwords.





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DapperDan
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Member since Jul 2012
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re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


When, in your opinion, did the US end this holdout supporting SA?





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Ace Midnight
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Member since Dec 2006
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re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

It's disheartening that less than 70 years after the Holocaust, less than 50 years after Jim Crow, and less than 20 years after apartheid South Africa, that there are still folks like you who still try to rationalize things for which there is no moral justification. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.


I'm not saying how things "ought" to be, just how they are. I have objected to the entire settlement policy since 1967. That was buying a problem that nobody needed.

Settlements are now gone from Gaza.

Have the rocket attacks ceased? Only when they run out of rockets and Israel is striking back.

Has terrorism (particularly suicide bombers) in Israel proper effectively been stopped? Yes, but only by the virtual imprisonment of most (by and large innocent) Palestinians. The extreme measures taken by Israel are not very palatable or consistent with its western, democractic principles, but they were not taken lightly (in my opinion) and they have been extremely effective.

I want there to be another solution. Driving the Israelis into the sea is not going to happen (at least anytime soon). I'm all ears.



This post was edited on 11/26 at 10:41 am


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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
18595 posts

re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:


When, in your opinion, did the US end this holdout supporting SA?

When Congress overrode Reagan's veto and put sanctions on South Afriica.






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DapperDan
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Member since Jul 2012
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re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

When Congress overrode Reagan's veto and put sanctions on South Afriica.


That equals hlding out supporting apartheid? Hardly. Every administration from the 70s on condemned apartheid.






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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
18595 posts

re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

You connot compair Israel to Nazi Germany, Jim Crow, or Apartheid Africa. Just like all of those situations are differnt, ISrael and Palestine's situation is differnt. If we need to point out the differences again I can, but it is annoying to have to keep bringing them up because you choose to ignore them in favor of your buzzwords.

No two situations are exactly the same, but it is there similarities that I'm focusing on. In all of these situations as well as others (eg. Yugoslavia, Northern Ireland, Rwanda, Cambodia, etc.), folks were being discriminated against and oppressed by governments due to race, religion and/or ethnicity. Do you deny that there is any religious-based discrimination practiced by the Israeli government today?






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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
18595 posts

re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

That equals hlding out supporting apartheid? Hardly. Every administration from the 70s on condemned apartheid.

Every U.S. government since the Six Day War has condemned Israeli settlement building and recognized the Palestinians as being under Israeli occupation, but they've also continued to send Israel money and weapons and protected them from sanctions at the U.N. with their veto, so what's your point? With governments, as we with people, I don't judge them by their words, I judge them by their actions.






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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
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re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


It is inflammatory to compair a situations similarities to Nazi Germany. If descrimination was all they were doing than they wouldn't be any more evil than the US was prior to 1965. I don't hold grudges agains tnations that have discrimnated against jews, there wouldn't be any left to like. The real probably jews have with nazi germany was the murdering of 6 million of us part.

If religios-based discrimination is all you care about then look to the entire middle east. I hope you are as harsh critique of a Palestinian nation as you are Israel. I woudl also like something other than anectodal evidence to these discriminations.

Furthermore, you are looking at specific similarities and making general statements. The differences are where your arguement falls appart, and they are both large and obvious.






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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
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re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

Settlements are now gone from Gaza.

Have the rocket attacks ceased? Only when they run out of rockets and Israel is striking back.

But Gaza has been blockaded for the last six years. Now it appears that the blockade is about to be lifted. If Hamas continues firing rockets with the blockade lifted, I'm on your side.
quote:

Has terrorism (particularly suicide bombers) in Israel proper effectively been stopped? Yes, but only by the virtual imprisonment of most (by and large innocent) Palestinians. The extreme measures taken by Israel are not very palatable or consistent with its western, democractic principles, but they were not taken lightly (in my opinion) and they have been extremely effective.

The Palestinians didn't oppose the idea of a wall, they opposed where it was being built. The idea of a wall was first proposed by the Labor Party, but they were going to build it on the Green Line, and Arafat supported that idea and even offered to help them build it. Ironically, it was Likud who opposed the wall back then, since they knew that it would essentiially put an end to their dream of Greater Israel. The current wall is nothing more than a land grab.






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SammyTiger
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Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
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re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

But Gaza has been blockaded for the last six years. Now it appears that the blockade is about to be lifted. If Hamas continues firing rockets with the blockade lifted, I'm on your side.


Reasonable. I am willing ot say that if Hamas committed to non-violent means of independence i woudl support them. I also believe they woudl be much more successful.






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Ace Midnight
LSU Fan
Currently asymptomatic
Member since Dec 2006
33484 posts

re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

But Gaza has been blockaded for the last six years. Now it appears that the blockade is about to be lifted. If Hamas continues firing rockets with the blockade lifted, I'm on your side.


Hamas will continue firing rockets with the blockade lifted. There will be another pretext. They are committed to the destruction of Israel, and in fact all Jews, as their stated goal.






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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
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re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

I am willing ot say that if Hamas committed to non-violent means of independence i woudl support them.


So you are opposed to the colonization of Palestine by the Zionist? You support a free and independent Palestine that respects its neighbors?

quote:

I also believe they woudl be much more successful.


How so? It has been 45 years, longer than the Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe. There have been years of peace and israel has done nothing but continue to build settlements and ethnically cleanse Palestine.

You are either a liar or have no clue what is going on in the occupied territories. How does building residential zones in Palestine contribute to Israeli security?

Taking away the water of Palestinian farmers? Destroying the olive trees?











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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
11666 posts

re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

So you are opposed to the colonization of Palestine by the Zionist? You support a free and independent Palestine that respects its neighbors?


I definitely support this. The respects its neighbors part, there in lies the rub.

quote:

How so? It has been 45 years, longer than the Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe. There have been years of peace and israel has done nothing but continue to build settlements and ethnically cleanse Palestine.


How are the violent means going? Successful?






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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
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re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

The respects its neighbors part, there in lies the rub.


A palestinain state is no threat to iserael, the dysfunction caused by te occupation is the threat.
But a palestinian state means israel has to give up the land, it won't do that so it accepts the status quo which we support.

quote:

How are the violent means going? Successful?


How would no resistance be different than what happened to those that did not resist nazi occupation? was that a success?

.






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GeorgeTheGreek
Michigan State Fan
Sparta, Greece
Member since Mar 2008
36363 posts
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re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


quote:

How would no resistance be different than what happened to those that did not resist nazi occupation? was that a success?


quote:

An association fallacy is an inductive informal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion.


quote:

HOW IT WORKS:
In notation of first-order logic, this type of fallacy can be expressed as (?x ? S : f(x)) ? (?x ? S : f(x)), meaning "if there exists any x in the set S so that a property f is true for x, then for all x in S the property f must be true."

Premise A is a B Premise A is also a C Conclusion Therefore, all Bs are Cs The fallacy in the argument can be illustrated through the use of an Euler diagram: "A" satisfies the requirement that it is part of both sets "B" and "C", but if one represents this as an Euler diagram, it can clearly be seen that it is possible that a part of set "B" is not part of set "C", refuting the conclusion that "all Bs are Cs".




This post was edited on 11/26 at 11:58 am


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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46310 posts

re: AP: Cease Fire Confirmed by Israeli PM


My analogy was not an association fallacy,


But if you are interested in HOW IT WORKS try



For serious thinkers



for the more emotive






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