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DeltaDoc
LSU Fan
The Delta
Member since Jan 2008
8252 posts

More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


What is more important to the sustained success and in making this nation more successful and being the best country in the world, i.e., to the existence and persistence of the American Dream...individual liberty or equality (fairness)?








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jamboybarry
LSU Fan
I Putt Out
Member since Feb 2011
9918 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


Used to be

quote:

individual liberty



Now it's

quote:

equality (fairness)

(or the fool hearty pursuit thereof








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Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
12881 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


True equality is not achievable.





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UGATiger26
Georgia Fan
Athens, GA
Member since Dec 2009
1896 posts
 Online 

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


quote:

What is more important to the sustained success and in making this nation more successful and being the best country in the world, i.e., to the existence and persistence of the American Dream...individual liberty or equality (fairness)?


What is equality?






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buddhavista
Member since Jul 2012
3543 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


liberty is much more important. But you cannot have liberty without a measure of equality.





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Mike da Tigah
St. Denham Rougeville
Member since Feb 2005
39794 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


Liberty


Fairness is in fairy land along with free.







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olgoi khorkhoi
Bucknell Fan
priapism survivor
Member since May 2011
2714 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


quote:

What is equality?


The only true equality is individual liberty for all. What we make of it is up to us.







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FT
Georgia Tech Fan
The University of LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2003
10790 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


Neither. Both. Equality. Liberty.

I'm not sure how to answer this question. What does equality mean in this question? What does liberty mean?






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DeltaDoc
LSU Fan
The Delta
Member since Jan 2008
8252 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


quote:

What does equality mean in this question? What does liberty mean?


Equality in the sense spoken of consistently by our president. Liberty in the sense spoken of by Ron Paul.






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elprez00
New Orleans Saints Fan
Hammond, LA
Member since Sep 2011
11543 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


quote:

Equality in the sense spoken of consistently by our president. Liberty in the sense spoken of by Ron Paul.


The original context of the "American Dream" was that you can make whatever you want of yourself in America.

The current context of the American Dream is that everyone should have the same chance to be successful no matter how hard they work.

Which is correct?






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ShortyRob
LSU Fan
Savannah, GA
Member since Oct 2008
25343 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


quote:

liberty is much more important. But you cannot have liberty without a measure of equality.


Actually, liberty and equality are mutually exclusive concepts.

100% liberty creates uneven results(inequality).

All efforts to solve this require infringements upon liberty.

Hence, they are on a perfectly sliding scale in opposite directions.






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DeltaDoc
LSU Fan
The Delta
Member since Jan 2008
8252 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


quote:

Hence, they are on a perfectly sliding scale in opposite directions.


Do you think this is reflected in our country currently?






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ShortyRob
LSU Fan
Savannah, GA
Member since Oct 2008
25343 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


quote:

Do you think this is reflected in our country currently?
Of course.

Some examples without passing any judgement. Simply examples.

100% liberty would be the freedom to hire whomever you want. Failing to hire people you don't like is not an infringement upon their liberty because if you hadn't opened your business, the job wouldn't even exist.

Laws that keep you from hiring whomever you want represent a shift from 100% liberty.

Note, when I said 100% liberty, I specified that it doesn't include you being allowed to infringe upon another person's liberty. IE, murder doesn't represent 100% liberty because the murdered guy obviously isn't experiencing liberty at that moment.

I believe that a nation that operated on a system of 100% liberty as I describe it would be the most incredible nation ever devised.

It also will never happen. People hate the results of freedom. They absolutely HATE the results of freedom.






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CherryGarciaMan
Sugar Magnolia
Member since Aug 2012
1348 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


AMERIKAN DREAM


He seems to think equality is more important.






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Freauxzen
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Feb 2006
19724 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


quote:

Actually, liberty and equality are mutually exclusive concepts.

100% liberty creates uneven results(inequality).

All efforts to solve this require infringements upon liberty.

Hence, they are on a perfectly sliding scale in opposite directions.


Well said.






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Mid Iowa Tiger
Iowa State Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2008
1622 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


Liberty... NOT individual liberty.

Big difference.

We were never intended to have a society where each individual did what ever they pleased. There were norms inherently recognized in society that are now no longer as prevalent which is leading to a slow yet accelerating decline.






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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46226 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


quote:

Actually, liberty and equality are mutually exclusive concepts.


Depends on how you define the terms. If equality means equal outcomes obviously there is a conflict with liberty of some. If it means equality under the law there is no conflict, unless you believe any laws impose on liberty.









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LSUnKaty
LSU Fan
Katy, TX
Member since Dec 2008
3298 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


Fairness and liberty are not mutually exclusive.

A limited government which only protects liberty and limits all forms of coercion actually promotes fairness and equality of opportunity. This form of government is truly the only fair and moral political construct.

A government which promotes equality of outcomes on the other hand, requires a coercive enforcement of the equal outcomes that government favors. This requires a substantial limitation of personal liberty and in fact a repudiation of private property rights. This form of government is patently unfair, unethical and immoral.







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Sentrius
USA Fan
Fort Rozz
Member since Jun 2011
16133 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


Liberty without a doubt. Especially individual liberty.

If everyone were truly equal, that would be anarchy man.






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buddhavista
Member since Jul 2012
3543 posts

re: More Important To The American Dream: Liberty or Equality (Fairness)


quote:

Actually, liberty and equality are mutually exclusive concepts.


er, no they aren't. You will not have liberty unless you have some level of equality.

You need equality in how gov't treats its citizens in order to achieve liberty. If one group receives preferential treatment, then there will have a good bit less of liberty for other citizens. For instance, african americans lacked a good bit of liberty b.c they didnt have equal access to institutions, such as voting.

Now I would agree that if you want equal outcomes, liberty will be severely cut. But that isn't the only concept of equality.






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