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Posted on 11/15/12 at 10:55 am to iwyLSUiwy
I got it. I need to resize it. But we're good.
The union was the primary thing he cared about, not the only thing. Only fanatics only care about one thing (SEE Brown, John). Lincoln actually had pretty complex views on slavery which changed radically over his life and during his presidency (actually encountering black people changes one's perspective a tad). If you are interested in his views on slavery, I cannot recommend The Fiery Trial highly enough. It is a great book by a great historian, Eric Foner.
But I think it is wrong to state that Lincoln did not care about slavery. However, it is true he cared about legality and Union more (hence the Emancipation Proclamation only freeing slaves in rebelling states, as a war measure under his powers as commander-in-chief).
The union was the primary thing he cared about, not the only thing. Only fanatics only care about one thing (SEE Brown, John). Lincoln actually had pretty complex views on slavery which changed radically over his life and during his presidency (actually encountering black people changes one's perspective a tad). If you are interested in his views on slavery, I cannot recommend The Fiery Trial highly enough. It is a great book by a great historian, Eric Foner.
But I think it is wrong to state that Lincoln did not care about slavery. However, it is true he cared about legality and Union more (hence the Emancipation Proclamation only freeing slaves in rebelling states, as a war measure under his powers as commander-in-chief).
Posted on 11/15/12 at 11:27 am to GeauxTigers18
JGL is in it. Automatically goes up near greatest movies ever made.
Posted on 11/15/12 at 11:34 am to Baloo
quote:
Especially when he is fighting against a group of people committing treason.
Not to get into a political debate, but secession isn't treason. It was very much a fundamental right of the states to do so as a means of keeping federal power in check.
I didn't realize the movie was based off of a book however. I'll need to check the book out before seeing.
To your other point, Lincoln was not anti-slavery to begin with. He had slaves pretty Much up until the Emancipation Proclimation IIRC. Did some of his party wear on him throughout the war? Absolutely, however he did not start an illegal war to free slaves.
ETA:regardless, I'm going to see the film because it is about one of the most interesting and controversial points in American history.
This post was edited on 11/15/12 at 11:37 am
Posted on 11/15/12 at 11:52 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Not to get into a political debate, but secession isn't treason. It was very much a fundamental right of the states to do so as a means of keeping federal power in check.
While I dispute the legality of this statement (and in fact, it is contrary to SCOTUS rulings... in 1868), that's irrelevant. Armed insurrection IS treason however you define it. As soon as the South took up arms against the federal government, they were actively committing treason. When South Carolina fired on the US Army trying to resupply a federal fort, they were taking up arms against the US government.
quote:
To your other point, Lincoln was not anti-slavery to begin with. He had slaves pretty Much up until the Emancipation Proclimation IIRC.
You don't RC. Lincoln did not own slaves. His family was poor and even if he was pro-slavery, which he wasn't, he couldn't have afforded them. He also rose to national prominence during the Lincoln-Douglas debates in 1858, in which a key issue was slavery. Lincoln took the anti-slavery position and argued against the recent Dred Scot decision. Lincoln also made his famed "half-slave, half-free" speech before he was president.
The idea that Lincoln was not anti-slavery does not withstand the barest scrutiny. Now, was he a radical abolitionist? No. Among Republicans, he was seen as a moderate. However, the Republicans were formed as an anti-slavery party.
Posted on 11/15/12 at 11:56 am to RollTide1987
quote:
I think Lincoln gets more credit for holding the nation together in its darkest hour than he does for abolishing slavery.
Holding it together via unconstitutional and tyrannical acts
Posted on 11/15/12 at 12:01 pm to Baloo
I'll have to check that out. I go to a black college,or whatever you want to call it, Southern. My last history class was Pre Civil War history(we covered it just not past it), and like most my instructors, she was black. We covered a good bit about blacks coming over from Africa and the ridiculously gross/terrible trip and situation they were in, which was actually the most interesting part of the class. The end of the semester was pretty fun around the time we got to Lincoln and freeing the slaves. I would imagine a majority white college Pre-Civil War class would be a good bit different 
She wasn't really a Lincoln fan and didn't give him much credit at all which was mind blowing to the class (I was the only white person I think). She was a very knowledgeable teacher and really liked me but had a odd opinion of Lincoln. If you research Lincoln and how he talked in multiple speeches/addresses yeah he does sound like a racist. But a racist in today's standard but was on par or under par for the south at the time. Don't know why that turned her off like it did. After that class though Jackson became my most interesting president. Dude was an old badass and a friggin racist toward Indians my god.
She wasn't really a Lincoln fan and didn't give him much credit at all which was mind blowing to the class (I was the only white person I think). She was a very knowledgeable teacher and really liked me but had a odd opinion of Lincoln. If you research Lincoln and how he talked in multiple speeches/addresses yeah he does sound like a racist. But a racist in today's standard but was on par or under par for the south at the time. Don't know why that turned her off like it did. After that class though Jackson became my most interesting president. Dude was an old badass and a friggin racist toward Indians my god. Posted on 11/15/12 at 12:24 pm to Baloo
quote:
You don't RC. Lincoln did not own slaves. His family was poor and even if he was pro-slavery, which he wasn't, he couldn't have afforded them. He also rose to national prominence during the Lincoln-Douglas debates in 1858, in which a key issue was slavery. Lincoln took the anti-slavery position and argued against the recent Dred Scot decision. Lincoln also made his famed "half-slave, half-free" speech before he was president.
Thank you for correcting me. I could have sworn I read somewhere he did own a slave, but I guess I was mistaken.
Posted on 11/15/12 at 12:40 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
I could have sworn I read somewhere he did own a slave
No you heard it at the redneck water cooler.
Posted on 11/15/12 at 12:46 pm to PortCityTiger24
Hardly, but good try.
Posted on 11/15/12 at 12:52 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
yeah he does sound like a racist
Oh, there's no doubt he was racist. He also did not advocate equal rights for the slaves. By today's standards, he'd be considered horribly racist and completely out of step with modern thought. But there's a huge gap between "not a racist" and "thinks it's okay to hold people in bondage". Lincoln fell in the gap.
Jackson is interesting merely because he was psychotic. Anyone nicknamed after the piece of wood he used to carry around to bludgeon people with is someone to be avoided at all costs. I actually find Martin Van Buren more interesting, if by interesting we mean "completely devoid of ethical or moral standards". We think we know crafty politicians now, they ain't got nothing on the Little Magician, who managed to become president despite no one actually liking or honestly supporting him.
I do agree that the antebellum period is incredibly fascinating. Henry Clay is probably my personal hero.
Posted on 11/15/12 at 12:56 pm to Baloo
Was it Jackson or Johnson that had the bullet fragment lodged in his heart for 20 years after a duel? I believe it was Jackson. Dude was straight up crazy.
Posted on 11/15/12 at 12:57 pm to Baloo
I just googled that...looks like you stole that post from someone else 
Posted on 11/15/12 at 1:36 pm to GeauxTigers18
You should see it if you have any interest.
Go into any movie with low expectations.
Go into any movie with low expectations.
Posted on 11/15/12 at 1:37 pm to PortCityTiger24
What did I steal and from whom?
Genuinely curious.
Genuinely curious.
Posted on 11/15/12 at 1:52 pm to Baloo
Joking!
Posted on 11/15/12 at 2:30 pm to PortCityTiger24
I thought I accidentally used the same phrases as someone else, which would've been kinda cool. Because I thought I used pretty unique phrasing.
Posted on 11/15/12 at 2:38 pm to Baloo
What if everything we have ever said has already been said before
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