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Message
The running game and what's not being mentioned
Posted on 11/12/12 at 11:44 am
Posted on 11/12/12 at 11:44 am
Over the last two weeks (I know, VERY small sample...) our running game has flourished. While it's true that both Philly and Atlanta don't have the best run defenses in the league, there is something else that I think is a bit more telling about our running game success.
A lot of fans will point to the re-emergence of Chris Ivory, and he's certainly been a part of it.
The emergence of Mark Ingram has been, IMO, just as big a story.
Both of these guys provide a little bit more of a powerful, bruising running style to the table, and Ivory adds the breakaway element.
Consequently, over the last two games, the guy who's seen his usage drop drastically has been Pierre Thomas (other than Sproles, of course).
Over the last two weeks, Thomas has averaged 5.5 carries per game, with 5 carries for 10 yards yesterday and 6 carries for 44 yards against Philly. This is a very respectable 4.9 ypc.
However, Ivory's averaged 8.5 carries over the last two weeks, (10/48 last week and 7/72 this week) for 7.1 ypc (yes, that huge run helps).
Ingram has averaged 11.5 carries per game over the last two weeks: 7/44 and 16/67, which translates to 4.8 ypc.
What does this all mean? Well, I think that it pretty much confirms what a lot of us already knew and/or believed.
1) Thomas is a solid back. Whether you give him 5 carries per game or 20 carries, you know what you're going to get.
2) Ivory is a boom or bust back. He either breaks off a long run or he will get stuffed for a very short gain--outside of his epic run, he averaged 2.7 ypc.
3) Ingram is the sort of back who needs touches to get the feel of the game and his opposition. He's also playing 100% healthy for the first time since his sophomore year at Bama, and it shows. He has what it takes to be a feature back, but we don't have that sort of system. However, giving him this sort of workload week in and week out would translate into a 1,000 yard season, IMO. Basically, he'd be a 2006 Deuce.
So what happens in the next few weeks when Sproles gets back? Your guess is as good as mine. I would probably take a carry or so away from each of the other three, and insert him in other packages where we saw Cadet yesterday. Oh, and of course 3rd down and other passing situations. And the red zone, where he's especially lethal.
All told, this is a good problem for Carmichael and Kromer to have to solve.
Thoughts?
A lot of fans will point to the re-emergence of Chris Ivory, and he's certainly been a part of it.
The emergence of Mark Ingram has been, IMO, just as big a story.
Both of these guys provide a little bit more of a powerful, bruising running style to the table, and Ivory adds the breakaway element.
Consequently, over the last two games, the guy who's seen his usage drop drastically has been Pierre Thomas (other than Sproles, of course).
Over the last two weeks, Thomas has averaged 5.5 carries per game, with 5 carries for 10 yards yesterday and 6 carries for 44 yards against Philly. This is a very respectable 4.9 ypc.
However, Ivory's averaged 8.5 carries over the last two weeks, (10/48 last week and 7/72 this week) for 7.1 ypc (yes, that huge run helps).
Ingram has averaged 11.5 carries per game over the last two weeks: 7/44 and 16/67, which translates to 4.8 ypc.
What does this all mean? Well, I think that it pretty much confirms what a lot of us already knew and/or believed.
1) Thomas is a solid back. Whether you give him 5 carries per game or 20 carries, you know what you're going to get.
2) Ivory is a boom or bust back. He either breaks off a long run or he will get stuffed for a very short gain--outside of his epic run, he averaged 2.7 ypc.
3) Ingram is the sort of back who needs touches to get the feel of the game and his opposition. He's also playing 100% healthy for the first time since his sophomore year at Bama, and it shows. He has what it takes to be a feature back, but we don't have that sort of system. However, giving him this sort of workload week in and week out would translate into a 1,000 yard season, IMO. Basically, he'd be a 2006 Deuce.
So what happens in the next few weeks when Sproles gets back? Your guess is as good as mine. I would probably take a carry or so away from each of the other three, and insert him in other packages where we saw Cadet yesterday. Oh, and of course 3rd down and other passing situations. And the red zone, where he's especially lethal.
All told, this is a good problem for Carmichael and Kromer to have to solve.
Thoughts?
11
Posted on 11/12/12 at 11:49 am to Sophandros
Ingram has been getting the 7-8 yard runs on the regular. This has opened up EVERYTHING. Is he seeing and/or hitting the holes better? Is it just because he is "healthy"?
Should be interesting to see if these guys can run against the 49ers though.
Should be interesting to see if these guys can run against the 49ers though.
Posted on 11/12/12 at 11:49 am to Sophandros
solid post..
I know it's a LONG way away and most of these backs won't be on the team anymore so I can see the saints switching from a pass first team to a running team... that might be the only way to survive the post-brees era
I know it's a LONG way away and most of these backs won't be on the team anymore so I can see the saints switching from a pass first team to a running team... that might be the only way to survive the post-brees era
Posted on 11/12/12 at 11:49 am to Sophandros
quote:
A lot of fans will point to the re-emergence of Chris Ivory, and he's certainly been a part of it.
The emergence of Mark Ingram has been, IMO, just as big a story.
Agree
quote:
Both of these guys provide a little bit more of a powerful, bruising running style to the table, and Ivory adds the breakaway element.
The Bruiser Brothers
quote:
1) Thomas is a solid back. Whether you give him 5 carries per game or 20 carries, you know what you're going to get.
He is the best back on the roster. He is the most constant back on the roster. And he shouldnt go anywhere. More screens please. for the love of god more screens to PT
quote:
2) Ivory is a boom or bust back. He either breaks off a long run or he will get stuffed for a very short gain--outside of his epic run, he averaged 2.7 ypc.
Agree 100%. We have a good 1, 2 punch with him and Ingram. Definitely like him on the roster over Cadet.
quote:
So what happens in the next few weeks when Sproles gets back? Your guess is as good as mine. I would probably take a carry or so away from each of the other three, and insert him in other packages where we saw Cadet yesterday. Oh, and of course 3rd down and other passing situations. And the red zone, where he's especially lethal.
Deactivate Cadet, put sproles in. We can use him in the slot with ingram or ivory on the field, dual back sets, screens, etc... Drew loves him and he is a great guy to have on the field.
quote:
Thoughts?
tl;dr
This post was edited on 11/12/12 at 11:51 am
Posted on 11/12/12 at 11:50 am to Sophandros
I have absofrickinglutely no idea what will happen.
Posted on 11/12/12 at 11:51 am to Breesus
quote:
Thoughts?
tl;dr
Posted on 11/12/12 at 11:53 am to Sophandros
I say we need to get 25-35 carries a game minimum even when Sproles comes back. We can spread the wealth in the pass game, we can damn sure do it rushing too. This may be the healthiest we have been at RB since '09, depending on how Sproles is when he returns
Posted on 11/12/12 at 11:53 am to Sophandros
Ride the kracken and MI till their stopped.
Also saw a shite load of Olsen in as extra blocker. Can't wait to see the reps of the game nola puts out on Tuesday for the off and def..
Also saw a shite load of Olsen in as extra blocker. Can't wait to see the reps of the game nola puts out on Tuesday for the off and def..
Posted on 11/12/12 at 11:54 am to whodatfan
I think Vitt is a big reason we have focused on the running game more than earlier in the season when we were passing too much. Breesus is the best play action passer ever when our running game is on.
Posted on 11/12/12 at 11:55 am to goatmilker
quote:
Ride the kracken and MI till their stopped.
As soon as a defense adjusts to stop our running game Brees turns on the burners. It was fun to watch in ATL. We are finally starting to look like out old selves again.
quote:
Also saw a shite load of Olsen in as extra blocker.
He had a REALLY dumb penalty, but he wasnt terrible.
Posted on 11/12/12 at 11:56 am to Sophandros
When everyone was saying this was such a "good problem to have," I wasn't so convinced. While in very happy with Ingram and Ivorys production, how does that affect Thomas and even Sproles when he comes back? Not to mention Cadet who has turned into a WR. While I like the different things everyone brings, I would just hate for our greed to cost us in the future.
I can see Pierre would be very frustrated right now. He consistently produces yet gets benched to feed Ingram and Ivory. While I'm not pandering for one over the other, I just feel like this is going to come to a head sooner or later.
I can see Pierre would be very frustrated right now. He consistently produces yet gets benched to feed Ingram and Ivory. While I'm not pandering for one over the other, I just feel like this is going to come to a head sooner or later.
This post was edited on 11/12/12 at 11:58 am
Posted on 11/12/12 at 12:03 pm to Sophandros
quote:
All told, this is a good problem for Carmichael and Kromer to have to solve
Love the insight. Only thing I would dream to add is the fact that since Kromer has
been back to solely coaching the line, the run game has exploded.
Posted on 11/12/12 at 12:05 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
I don't see PT being frustrated.
I think that the nature of the last two defenses we faced played more into running Ivory and Ingram more. Also, we had leads late in both games, which means more Ingram.
PT and Sproles are our change of pace/keep you on your toes guys, which I think is a great role for both of them.
PT has always split time, and I don't think that he has the sort of toxic ego that would make him unwilling to continue to share carries. He still gets a lot of playing time, particularly in the passing game.
I think that the nature of the last two defenses we faced played more into running Ivory and Ingram more. Also, we had leads late in both games, which means more Ingram.
PT and Sproles are our change of pace/keep you on your toes guys, which I think is a great role for both of them.
PT has always split time, and I don't think that he has the sort of toxic ego that would make him unwilling to continue to share carries. He still gets a lot of playing time, particularly in the passing game.
Posted on 11/12/12 at 12:10 pm to Sophandros
quote:
what's not being mentioned
is that the running game has looked a helluva lot better since Brown took over for Zach
Posted on 11/12/12 at 12:10 pm to Sophandros
I think that having their full-time O-Line coach back is the biggest key to the recent success.
Posted on 11/12/12 at 12:19 pm to Sophandros
quote:
PT has always split time, and I don't think that he has the sort of toxic ego that would make him unwilling to continue to share carries.
Absolutely this. This is a team. We dont have big headed superstars here. Payton walked in and threw all of them out of the locker room (lookin at you Gandy). And, brace yourself for this shocker, we run by committee. PT is fine. I do think he needs more screen looks though.
Posted on 11/12/12 at 12:24 pm to Spelt it rong
quote:
Only thing I would dream to add is the fact that since Kromer has been back to solely coaching the line, the run game has exploded.
this. We've also seen the O-line have an extra blocker a lot more. Charles Brown finally saw some playing time vs. Denver in that role and it has carried over. He had a real nice block on Ivory's TD run vs. the Eagles. He lined up as the extra blocker on the end of the line and totally washed the Eagles linebacker out of the play.
Jed Collins and David Thomas have blocked well the last few weeks also. Like Sophandros mentioned, Ingram looks healthy for the first time in a while.
Ivory is always going to run hard and I think that has actually made Ingram have more of a sense of urgency, just my opinion.
Posted on 11/12/12 at 12:32 pm to LooseCannon22282
I completely agree. This team at full strength is as good as any team in the league IMO 
Posted on 11/12/12 at 12:54 pm to yurintroubl
quote:
I think that having their full-time O-Line coach back is the biggest key to the recent success.
this x1000e or whatever...
Look at how we couldnt run the ball and Brees was running for his life the first 4 games or so. We dug ourselfs in a huge hole. Its steadily gotten better, and hit a new level with the return of Vitt. Brees has plenty of time, and the O line is opening holes we havent seen since our SB run.
i said this early in the season, and ill say it here again. I think not bringing in a head coach for the year has done more damage than anyone thought. Instead of doing one job well, our HC was forced to do two jobs half-assed, and it showed.
This post was edited on 11/12/12 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 11/12/12 at 2:05 pm to Sophandros
solid post..
I know it's a LONG way away and most of these backs won't be on the team anymore so I can see the saints switching from a pass first team to a running team... that might be the only way to survive the post-brees era
I know it's a LONG way away and most of these backs won't be on the team anymore so I can see the saints switching from a pass first team to a running team... that might be the only way to survive the post-brees era
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