Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

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Lsupimp
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2003
31673 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

The better question is, how much of the "involuntary immigrant" status remains pervasive culturally today?


There is not a black college student alive today who has ever heard of Horatio Alger.
But I bet 9/10 can explain "Reparations" to you.
It's the triumph of modern Liberalism.
It ensures two things; a permanant client base for the Democrats and collosal societal Failure.






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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46310 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

What does IQ have to do with it...


The educational outcomes for people is more closely related to intelligence than race, poverty, single parent homes, etc.

When a groups average IQ is 85 they (and we) are pretty much fuicked.

You can't motivate stupid to have even average cognitive ability, no matter how much money you spend or how much you belive in education.






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TigerintheNO
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
23308 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

Involuntary minorities, perhaps like the families of some of the Hispanics in our study


I would say that 99% of Hispanics in the US are here voluntarily.






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davesdawgs
Georgia Fan
Georgia - Class of '75
Member since Oct 2008
17916 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

Again, that's why the Culture of Victimization that The Left has carefully cultivated as a client base needs to be discredited morally and intellectually and assigned to the dustbin of history along with every other failed ideology.


Nicely stated.






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RollTide4Ever
Alabama Fan
Nashville
Member since Nov 2006
9462 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


Thomas Sowell states that immigrant iqs have always been lower than others. Rural people iqs have always been lower than that of city dwellers. Is this set in stone for future generations? No, as a matter of fact even the iq of the most ratcheted people has risen the past several decades.

I love this clip:

LINK



This post was edited on 10/6 at 12:37 pm


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shutterspeed
LSU Fan
My new Texas adventure
Member since May 2007
35375 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

In his study of IQ tests scores for different populations over the past sixty years, James R. Flynn discovered that IQ scores increased from one generation to the next for all of the countries for which data existed (Flynn, 1994). This interesting phenomena has been called "the Flynn Effect."


quote:

Research shows that IQ gains have been mixed for different countries. In general, countries have seen generational increases between 5 and 25 points.


LINK







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RollTide4Ever
Alabama Fan
Nashville
Member since Nov 2006
9462 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


Yup, and geography matters. The typical northern black soldier scored higher than the typical white soldier from the south.





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Zephyrius
LSU Fan
Covington, La.
Member since Dec 2004
3123 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

When a groups average IQ is 85 they (and we) are pretty much fuicked.

Is this a real number?

If so how is this measured? When how where what age was the test given? I can't recall ever taking a formal IQ test.

I guess I'm asking how is the IQ test a pure infallible measurement of intelligence...

It appears to me that reason and logic is more fundamental in advancing society than a measure of intelligence. Heaven knows how many people I know that are "smart" but lack all reason and logic.






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Zephyrius
LSU Fan
Covington, La.
Member since Dec 2004
3123 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


From shutterspeed link...
quote:

Why must IQ tests be routinely restandardized?
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Because populations experience IQ gains over time, IQ tests must be constantly restandardized so that subjects are not scored against inaccurate norms. Using obsolete IQ norms can cause problems especially when comparing scores between different groups and populations. Flynn documents an example where scores from a group of Chinese Americans were being compared to an earlier generation of white Americans. This simple mistake caused the researchers to believe that they were working with "an elite IQ group" when in actuality they were working with a group of high achievers with comparable IQs to their peers (Flynn, 1991). In another case documented by Flynn, IQ scores were compared against obsolete norms to incorrectly show large increases in IQ between children adopted into "good" homes and their biological mothers (Flynn, 1984).

A widely held hypothesis is that people lose fluid intelligence as they age. This phenomena is caused by comparing the IQ tests of elderly people with today's young people. However, when compared to the IQ scores of youth in their own era (a half a century before) the IQ losses with age are minimal (Raven, 1992, pp. G22-G26). In a final example, Flynn explains that the WISC, an intelligence test used widely in the United States, was not restandardized for 25 years between 1947 and 1972. This comparison of IQ scores to obsolete norms caused the number of children who were officially classified as mentally retarded to drop from 8.8 million in 1947 to 2.6 million in 1972 (Flynn, 1985).

A note of caution: The Flynn Effect illustrates the difficulty of comparing test results over time, but it says little about the validity of the tests within a given time period (Flynn talks about the validity "within generations").

It appears to me using IQ as a reason why a certain minority group are less driven to succeed or grasp the American ideal of self determination is a flawed measurement... The black community as a culture embraces liberalism for what ever reason appears not to be due to intelligence but appears to be more due to their embrace of victim hood as a community. I guess its some sort of false since of power they believe they are achieving but lack the forethought(reason or logic) to see the destruction they are doing to themselves as a community.







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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46310 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

Is this a real number?


Yes, African american IQ average 85, General Society 100.

quote:

If so how is this measured?


IQ testing

quote:

When how where what age was the test given?


Millions of tests over several decades, people take IQ tests at various ages.


quote:

I can't recall ever taking a formal IQ test.


Your point?

quote:

I guess I'm asking how is the IQ test a pure infallible measurement of intelligence...


Infallible? It is an accurate measure that has proven consistent for groups over many decades.

quote:

It appears to me that reason and logic is more fundamental in advancing society than a measure of intelligence.


So you think reason and logic has nothing to do with intelligence?

quote:

Heaven knows how many people I know that are "smart" but lack all reason and logic.


How have you measured this? Do you give tests of reason, logic and smart? When were these tests given? What groups have you personally tested?







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Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
65786 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


CT is correct. I might add that the value of IQ tests regarding race is correlative. There are black brain surgeons and there are white garbage men. But in general people with higher IQs make more money than people with low IQs. Therefore, since whites have generally higher IQs (about 15 points) than blacks then it explains why white income is generally higher than black income.

Mexicans living in the US also have lower IQs than whites. There incomes are lower. Asians have slightly higher IQs in the US than whites. Their incomes are slightly higher than whites.

The income correlation is simple to see. If you have an IQ of 90 you can't be a doctor or a CEO. It's not possible.

Edit: There is also a multiplier effect by marriage. People marry within similar IQ ranges. So their kids inherit high or low IQs from both parents. In the vast majority of cases, it's average IQs. That's why The Bell Curve is names TBC. It is not an equal distribution. Almost everyone is between 90-110.



This post was edited on 10/6 at 2:17 pm


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mikelowery1911
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2009
721 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


Do IQ tests measure intelligence? The ability to learn and process new information or do they measure education level? Those are two completely different things.





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shutterspeed
LSU Fan
My new Texas adventure
Member since May 2007
35375 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

Do IQ tests measure intelligence? The ability to learn and process new information or do they measure education level? Those are two completely different things.


Right. Assuming the IQ argument for a moment, do we not accept that the education of all is valuable for society (at least up to a certain age)? And if so, isn't it prudent to research how to maximize the development of society's children? Do all children have the ability to learn and develop in some regard, despite IQ level?






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Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
65786 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

Do IQ tests measure intelligence? The ability to learn and process new information or do they measure education level?

Ability. Not education. If your bucket is small, you can't hold a lot of water no matter what your level of education is.






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Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
65786 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

Right. Assuming the IQ argument for a moment, do we not accept that the education of all is valuable for society (at least up to a certain age)? And if so, isn't it prudent to research how to maximize the development of society's children? Do all children have the ability to learn and develop in some regard, despite IQ level?


This is Jonathon Kozal's crap. It's a matter of resources and egalitarianism. Should we spend 1K to educate a genius who will create wealth many times over the investment? Or spend 1K to teach a retarded person to tie his shoes without killing anyone?






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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46310 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

The typical northern black soldier scored higher than the typical white soldier from the south.


Link,

what does "typical" mean?






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RCDfan1950
LSU Fan
United States
Member since Feb 2007
11229 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


Another cultural point to be considered. Our culture is based on a competition of individuals, wherein personal merit and motivation are rewarded. An individual is a whole lot more inclined to support such an independent competative system...ONLY IF they believe they can prosper in it. Blacks feel a lot more comfortable in groups, than alone. Makes perfect sense. Therefore..."spread the wealth around". Like Obama said..."rich folk believe in non-violence; why wouldn't they; they've got what they want and don't other people taking their stuff". Not rocket science.

And why would any inferior (intellect) genetic group support a system wherein the deck was stacked against them from the git go. Makes no Darwinian sense.

And not only that, in a moral sense, many blacks - rightly or wrongly so - believe that their grandfolks were indeed defrauded, and that they deserve lawful 'reparations'. Not hard for the egalatarian Socialists to play that emotion/belief like a fiddle.

Will be interesting to see where all this goes.







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shutterspeed
LSU Fan
My new Texas adventure
Member since May 2007
35375 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

This is Jonathon Kozal's crap. It's a matter of resources and egalitarianism. Should we spend 1K to educate a genius who will create wealth many times over the investment? Or spend 1K to teach a retarded person to tie his shoes without killing anyone?


From my limited reading of Kozol, he didn't argue either/or. He argued $500 for one and $500 for the other. Not stacking the educational deck at an early stage to give everyone a fair shot.




This post was edited on 10/6 at 5:07 pm


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TigerRad
LSU Fan
Columbia, SC
Member since Jan 2007
4608 posts
 Online 

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


Wow. A lot of ignorant posters buying into racist IQ propaganda in this thread. I suppose I'm not surprised eugenics is still going strong in 2012 on TD





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JWS3
Purdue Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2008
2502 posts

re: Addressing the Minority "Problem" in Education


quote:

Wow. A lot of ignorant posters buying into racist IQ propaganda in this thread. I suppose I'm not surprised eugenics is still going strong in 2012 on TD


Other than calling people names why not offer something to support your opinion that there is no correlation between race and IQ!






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