re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)

If Aegon was at the TOJ, then Varys knows that Ned knows a live Targ heir exists without Robert's knowledge...even if Wylla was the go-between the two. Ned may not know of Varys' involvement in this secret, but Ned would make Varys very wary.

say that three times fast!

ETA: the only way I see Ned keeping this secret is if that heir is his blood.

So wait... your theory is the "Mummer's Dragon" was at the TOJ or are you saying the kid (name?) that said he and Jon had the same wet nurse is the real Aegon? I may be confused.

we need to move this to the crackpot thread, I'll quote and reply to you there.

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Oct 3 - Arya I, Bran II, Tyrion I

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Giving the bump for discussion (on my phone and will add links in a bit).

Also, is too slow for you guys? Do we need to revise the schedule?

I took two things from Arya's POV. She is Lyanna reborn and is probably just going through an ugly duckling type phase. Also, I know the R + L = J theory is probably influencing me, but reading about Jon and his demeanor reminds me of the way Rhaegar is described. His level of intelligence noticing everything and calm demeanor while he and Arya are watching Joffrey and Robb stood out for some reason. Of course his blow up at the dinner table in his POV reminds of his mother and her wolf blood.

I still hate reading this Bran POV. I like that it at least describes Jamie as loathing the idea of pushing Bran out. Still hold the idea that he only did it for his sister and his misguided love for her. Not for himself.

In Tyrion's POV it is said that when they closed Bran's window, he seemed to weaken from being disconnected from Summer. My theory that Jon isn't even really dead could be built on here. If he survives, and Ghost is close, it may turn out that he is just in a sort of coma until he can draw on Ghost's strength and wake up to whip some arse.

I had forgotten all about "Arya Horseface"

Seems Martin has planted the seed for her to surpass even Sansa's beauty when she's full grown. Good to remember the age discrepancies from the book to the show. Lyanna reborn indeed.

I agree with the Lyanna reborn angle on Arya.

That makes it difficult for me to believe that Lyanna died giving birth. Although I completely agreed with R+L=J.

I mean, Lyanna was badass. I just can't see her or Arya going out giving birth. She would have sewed up the vagina Rambo style and rushed off into battle with the Sword of the Morning.

You guys are killing me. Awful lot of flakes in this thread.

Jon
Tough chapter to read as it is last time Jon and Robb see each other. Cat is as much a bitch as she is when she is UnCat. Jon has to see Arya and Bran again. It would be too cruel for it not to happen.

Dany
I miss her like this. She is obviously stronger than she knows at this point, and it flashes here and there. Viserys and Joffrey should have been besties.

Ned
I wish we could have had more about Bob and Ned from their youth. Mainly because all we get to see of him is the fat shadow of a once great man and the story of the Trident. I would like to have seen him as young Storm Lord and young King. It is here that my only doubt of R + L = J comes from, though it is a small one. The way Ned avoids the subject comes off to me as he is truly ashamed. But it could just be the result of years of convincing himself of the lie he promised to keep.

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Jon has to see Arya and Bran again. It would be too cruel for it not to happen.

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I agree but how will Jon get the chance to see Bran? Unless, as a couple people have theorized, Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest are really evil and Bran flees them after discovering it. I just don't see how Jon and Bran would meet up.

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The way Ned avoids the subject comes off to me as he is truly ashamed. But it could just be the result of years of convincing himself of the lie he promised to keep.

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This is one of the points against R+L=J in my mind as well. You can also couple it with Jon and Arya being described as looking alike and the only two who look like Ned.

However, later on Ned says Arya's looks reminds him of Lyanna so that could counter the idea that Ned is really Jon's father.

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Was there not a quote from an earlier chapter talking about Ned and Lyanna having a lot of the same features?

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Not that I can recall. I have been trying to take notes on interesting quotes, or theories I come up with as I read, and I don't remember writing that down. Please, someone correct me if i'm wrong.

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Could've sworn something about Arya having the "Stark look" like Ned, as opposed to Sansa and others having the Tully features. Use the transitive property of Arya looking like Lyanna and Arya and Jon.

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Oh yea, that is definitely in Arya's opening chapter. In her thoughts she says that it made her think she was a bastard, like Jon, since the Tully genetic traits seem to be dominant, just like the Baratheon traits are always dominant over Lannister.

The Arya, Jon, Ned features makes R+L=J a little more complex than it seems.