Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS | Page 377 | TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
BlackleafBaller
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2012
1304 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

What's the theory on that then?

Cliffnotes in picture form:




"Just fricking kill me"





And this:




This post was edited on 6/25 at 9:34 pm


Back to top
  Replies (0)
Methuselah
LSU Fan
On da Riva
Member since Jan 2005
13798 posts
 Online 

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


(I'm assuming you're serious with these questions)

The theory is that Lyanna and Rhaegar were in love and ran off together. Hasn't been established one way or the other but Ned would likely have known because he talked to Lyanna right before she died (and she made him give her a promise which hasn't been specified yet but has been subject to much speculation - ie: R+L=J).

Robert always believed that it was kidnapping and never stopped hating Rhaegar. And I think Brandon Stark (Ned's brother) also was convinced it was kidnapping.

What the truth is, has yet to be revealed. I think the "ran off together" and R+L=J theories are accepted by most of the readers though.






Back to top
BlackleafBaller
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2012
1304 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I'm assuming you're serious with these questions

You assumed wrong






Back to top
Methuselah
LSU Fan
On da Riva
Member since Jan 2005
13798 posts
 Online 

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

You assumed wrong

Ah well, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Besides which it's fun rehashing that stuff.






Back to top
ladytiger118
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2009
16390 posts
 Online 

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


As a show watcher who started reading the books a few months ago, I feel like the writers have really fricked up Jon Snow's story in ASoS as well as the previous 2 books. Instead they add more pointless scenes with Dany (crowdsurfing messiah) and Tyrion (a la Podrick the manwhore scenes) when they could've shown more Jon or Arya with the Hound even.

Yeah I know that at least 35% of ASoS has yet to appear and will happen next season, but I feel like they let me down with Jon and the Wildlings when I love reading his POV in ASoS. Especially his scene with Mance...that was more powerful in the book. And even his banter with Tormund and his 'member' talk .

Am I the only one who feels this way?



This post was edited on 6/25 at 9:56 pm


Back to top
ffishstik
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2007
2755 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Some things were actually a little better in the series, some things they messed up. My biggest disappointment was the house of the undying last season. That was such a key chapter to the whole series and they butchered it.

A little more of Jon's time with the wildlings to show that they are good people would help in laying the groundwork for his decision (with Stannis) to allow them through the Wall, but it isn't critical.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Methuselah
LSU Fan
On da Riva
Member since Jan 2005
13798 posts
 Online 

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Something has ben a bit off with Jon's story on the show lately IMHO. I couldn't really put my finger on it but I think maybe it was a portion acting and some directing. Just when he should have been becoming tougher and more sure of himself (cause face it, he has to do some very hard nosed stuff next season) they had that horrid "I want to go home" scene like he was 3 years old.

I'm hoping they're up to Jon storyline next year. At least Stannis should bring some gravitas and Melissandre should bring some steam to the wall.



This post was edited on 6/25 at 10:48 pm


Back to top
ladytiger118
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2009
16390 posts
 Online 

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Definitely agree with what you and ffishstick are saying. I think they are almost pandering too much to the "Hodor fan favorite" characters like Dany, when in reality, Dany has way less chapters than Jon does in the books.

I think the show writers and directors have barely shown Jon's interactions with the Wildlings and that he got along well with Tormund, for instance.

Isn't ASoS the whole setup point to show that eventually the Wildlings and Night's Watch will have to unite against the true enemy of The Others? I feel like the show has done a poor job with that. Especially if the Hodors are to believe that Jon is mature enough and capable of being Lord Commander when the time comes.

I really hope they'll showcase the Wall story heavily next season with Stannis and Jon and make the Podrick Tyrion Dany scenes less in amount.

Definitely agree with the HotU scene being way better in ACOK. Much better symbolism and foreshadowing. It makes me think that David and Dan brought Jason back for their own personal reasons because they're all buds or whatever.

I understand that with many shows, the writers tend to deviate from the book material as the series goes on, but why frick up the awesomeness of ASoS?? Because Jon isn't Dany's dragons or Tyrion? So dumb and it pisses me off, especially since Jon's storyline gets better than Dany and Tyrion as the series goes on/as of the last book.

Jon is one of the most important characters and the show has done a mediocre job at developing him. They should've left the scene with him and Mance as the book had it with him not attending the king arrival because he was a bastard reason and the going home scene was lame too.



This post was edited on 6/25 at 11:04 pm


Back to top
  Replies (0)
OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
38737 posts
 Online 

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I hate Joffrey more than Ramsey...at least Ramsey is funny at times .


You know, I don't really hate Ramsay. Say what you will about him, but he's completely earned his position. That's what I despise most about Joffrey and Janos Slynt, in that they didn't really earn their positions. Janos just took bribes out the arse and Littlefinger planted him there and Joffrey for obvious reasons. Ramsay had to work his way up, and he did it gloriously.






Back to top
OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
38737 posts
 Online 

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I need some clarification on something, why Rhaegar Targaryen look at in such a positive light by trags and Rebels?


The only person in the Seven Kingdoms who looks on Rhaegar in a bad light is Robert himself. Ned, Jaime, Jon Con, Barristan, and Cersei all had the utmost respect for him, and they're the only POV characters who met him before his death. Rhaegar was a good man, he just made a dumb choice that ripped the kingdoms apart.






Back to top
ladytiger118
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2009
16390 posts
 Online 

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Robert was basically the only one who hated Rhaegar. That should tell readers & viewers alike that perhaps Robert had the story wrong and that gasp, Lyanna didnt want him . Lots of envy in Robert's case. I would say that based on that eclectic list of characters, Rhaegar was a likeable man, especially since both Ned and Cersei respected him.





Back to top
OaklandFire
Bucknell Fan
Member since Oct 2008
173 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS




Back to top
auyushu
Auburn Fan
Scottsdale, AZ
Member since Jan 2011
5367 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Yeah I know that at least 35% of ASoS has yet to appear and will happen next season, but I feel like they let me down with Jon and the Wildlings when I love reading his POV in ASoS. Especially his scene with Mance...that was more powerful in the book. And even his banter with Tormund and his 'member' talk .

Am I the only one who feels this way?



I agree completely on that lady. I've missed all the Tormund and Jon banter from the books. But then again Tormund is one of my favorite side characters from the series. They've actually done a pretty meh job with Jon's story throughout the entire series, not enough time has been spent on it.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Tiger Voodoo
New Orleans Saints Fan
Champions 2003, 2007, 2009, 201fack
Member since Mar 2007
9078 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

*OaklandFire*





quote:

What is Ragnarök? It is, quite literally, the song of ice and fire.

But what is a song? Is a song a battle? Do notes fight one another for dominance, with no care or concern for the overall sound? No. That is discord. A song is harmony -- notes working together in unison.

And that is Ragnarök -- the forces of ice & fire uniting as one to attack the world of gods and men.

And that is key to understanding what's really going on in George R. R. Martin's epic fantasy series, A Song of Ice and Fire, upon which the popular HBO show, Game of Thrones, is based (assuming my theory is correct, of course. If it's not, then I'm just delusional, but it should be entertaining either way, so, by all means, read on). The battle is not Dragons vs. White Walkers. It's Dragons & White Walkers vs. Mankind.


Holy frick that is some good shite in there.

And OML, awesome theory of the upcoming events. Would love it if Sansa discovered LFs moves in the crypts and killed him there for Ned to see, and save Tyrion at the same time.

I do agree that Sansa and Tyrion will come to love and respect each other though. Tyrion deserves it, and Sansa needs to come to that realization in order to earn her way back into my good graces.

I've still never forgiven her for lying about Nymeria to protect Joff, and it eventually cost her Lady's life, which Ned had to take himself, still one of the most gutwrenching moments of the series IMO, and Sansa hasn't even voiced that realization in her POVs yet.

I'm more forgiving of her for pleading for Ned to confess. She was a kid that didn't know any better and just didn't want her father to die. She couldn't understand the consequences to the realm, that is something Ned should have had to decide. And her pleading would have worked, as Cersei would have kept her end of the deal and spared Ned if not for Joff/LF.

Anyway, great couple of posts by OML and Oakland to give this thread a jolt.

As for Oakland's link, I've defended Bloodraven as misunderstood, but that extremely detailed and well thought out theory gives me pause.

Goddamn it GRRM, I'm begging you to write like the wind.

Doesn't he want to know how it's going to end too???




This post was edited on 6/26 at 9:52 am


Back to top
NIH
LA-Lafayette Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Aug 2008
62108 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Ramsay had to work his way up, and he did it gloriously.


Ramsay betrayed his brother, Ser Rodrik, and others to earn his position. How is that any different from Slynt taking bribes and betraying Ned?






Back to top
OaklandFire
Bucknell Fan
Member since Oct 2008
173 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


That blog literally blew my mind.







Back to top
OaklandFire
Bucknell Fan
Member since Oct 2008
173 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Part 1:

From LINK

What is Ragnarök? It is, quite literally, the song of ice and fire.

But what is a song? Is a song a battle? Do notes fight one another for dominance, with no care or concern for the overall sound? No. That is discord. A song is harmony -- notes working together in unison.

And that is Ragnarök -- the forces of ice & fire uniting as one to attack the world of gods and men.

And that is key to understanding what's really going on in George R. R. Martin's epic fantasy series, A Song of Ice and Fire, upon which the popular HBO show, Game of Thrones, is based (assuming my theory is correct, of course. If it's not, then I'm just delusional, but it should be entertaining either way, so, by all means, read on). The battle is not Dragons vs. White Walkers. It's Dragons & White Walkers vs. Mankind.

Prior to Ragnarök, the world is plagued by civil war, rampant immorality, patricide/fratricide and disease. A "long winter" then engulfs the world, known as Fimbulvetr (i.e. three simultaneous winters without end -- Winter Is Coming) before the ensuing apocalypse erupts. At Ragnarök, giants (i.e. jötnar -- not giants as we think of them, but elemental beings) who inhabit the realms of ice & fire unite under the leadership of the bound god Loki -- the trickster -- and his monstrous offspring -- Fenrir, the Bound Wolf -- Jormungandr, the World Serpent -- and Hel, the Queen of the Dead -- to do battle with, and slay the gods. All the major figures of the Norse pantheon are foretold to perish in the ensuing chaos -- Odin, the Mad God, shall be swallowed by Fenrir -- Thor, the Storm Lord who wields a mighty war hammer, shall fall to Jormungandr -- Tyr, the one-handed god of single combat, shall be torn to shreds by Garmr, Hel's Hound -- Freyr, the phallic lord of virility, shall fall to the fire giant Surtr, the Black, and his fiery sword -- and Heimdallr, the Watcher, shall die at the hands of Loki himself. When all is said and done, only the children of the gods shall remain, and Odin's son, Vidarr, in particular, whose name means Vengeance, shall tear Fenrir's jaws asunder and avenge his father, after which, the world shall be rejuvenated, and life shall start anew.

To see how this relates to A Song of Ice & Fire, we must first identify who is who and which side they're playing for. It's not quite as straightforward as you may think:

Gods
Odin - Aerys Targaryen
Thor - Robert Baratheon
Tyr - Jaime Lannister
Freyr - Walder Frey
Heimdallr - Samwell Tarly
Frigg - Cersei Lannister
Freyja - Margaery Tyrell
Idunn - Sansa Stark
Njördr - Theon Greyjoy
Kvasir - Jojen Reed
Baldr - Joffrey Baratheon
Vidarr - Tommen Baratheon

Giants
Loki - Bloodraven
Fenrir - Bran Stark
Jormungandr - Danaerys Targaryen
Hel - Melisandre
Surtr - Jon Snow
Hati - Arya Stark
Fafnir - Tyrion Lannister
Garmr - Rickon Stark
Hrym - Victarion Greyjoy



This post was edited on 6/26 at 10:15 am


Back to top
OaklandFire
Bucknell Fan
Member since Oct 2008
173 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Part 2:

From LINK

At the heart of the story lies the trickster god, Loki. Although he's occasionally depicted favorably, he's generally a devious character in Norse mythology who works against the gods. He is a shapeshifter, and is able to take the form of birds, fish, insects and even the mist. In addition to this, he is the embodiment of fire (i.e. sometimes helpful, sometimes harmful), and is the father of "wargs" -- which is an old Norse word meaning, "monstrous wolf" (in reference to his son, Fenrir). Due to his part in murdering Baldr -- Odin & Frigg's favorite son -- Loki was banished from Asgard and bound in a cave as punishment, where he is to remain until he breaks free at Ragnarök. Also of interest, the mother of his three monstrous children, Angrboda, is a giantess who lives in an "ironwood", where she raises Fenrir.

If you have read up to the most recent book in the series, A Dance with Dragons, you might have already figured out that Lord Brynden, aka the Three-Eyed Crow, aka Bloodraven -- Bran's mentor -- is Loki. Bloodraven is an extremely old Targaryen bastard living under the roots of a weirwood tree far beyond the Wall. He had been banished and condemned to the Night's Watch for committing an unknown crime (I happen to think he was blamed for the death of Aerion Targaryen, much the same as Loki was blamed for the death of Baldr -- and Tyrion, in a case of "history repeating itself", was blamed for the death of Joffrey -- but GRRM has yet to reveal Bloodraven's "crime"), and possesses the ability to "warg" (which in GRRM's world essentially means "bodysnatching", rather than "monstrous wolf") with a whole host of animals, including a flock of ravens and many other creatures. It is even rumored by the peasants in the Dunk & Egg books that he can warg with the mist (exactly like Loki).

Bran, who Bloodraven is mentoring, represents monstrous Fenrir -- the Bound Wolf (Bran's dreams of the "bound wolf" make this pretty straightforward). The word Fenrir means "of the fens, or marshlands", and this is represented by Bran's relationship to Meera & Jojen Reed, who are bog people. Similarly, Fenrir is said to feed on the flesh of men in his cave, which would seem to confirm the theory that Bran cannibalized Jojen as part of the "weirwood paste" he was fed by the Children of the Forest.

And, the conflict upon which the whole story is centered on is between Bran & Jaime -- not Jon & his mother, or Daenerys and her "children". When Bran catches Jaime having sex with Cersei in the beginning of A Game of Thrones, and subsequently gets pushed from the window, it sets off a chain of events. The culmination is the loss of Jaime's hand to the mercenary Vargo Hoat (who was changed to the character Locke on the TV show -- a Bolton man, rather than a sellsword). These two incidents are representative of the story of Fenrir's binding by the god Tyr -- the one-handed god of single combat -- the champion of mankind (i.e. Jaime -- or, as the Asshai'i call him, Azor Ahai). When Tyr first binds Fenrir, he still has both of his hands. Fenrir bites off his hand as a result of his binding. And even though Bran isn't directly responsible for chopping off Jaime's hand, it does come about as a result of his crippling (i.e. a war was started over it). And in this sense, Bran's paralyzation represents Fenrir's "binding".

Side note: Jaime's role as Tyr is hinted at in the names of his [half] brother TYRion, and [foster] father TYwin (Ty is Norwegian for Tyr). And, the etymology of those names could be of possible interest (stress possible... Ok, probably not, but try to bear with me here). The word "ion" is of Greek origin, and once meant "the road to" or "the path to" in its ancient usage, making Tyr-ion "the road" or "the path to Tyr". Conversely, "win" is of proto-Germanic origin and has always meant pretty much the same thing, more or less -- "to gain by struggling" -- making Ty-win "to gain Ty[r] by struggling [with Aerys]". More etymological connections appear in the names TYRell and PeTYR Baelish. The root of the word "ell" in Greek means "length of the arm", making the name Tyr-ell "the length of Tyr's arm". Similarly, PeTYR Baelish could mean "Tyr's favorite child", as "pet" is of Scottish origin, meaning "favored" or "indulged child". Admittedly, I'm probably digging a little too deep there, but at the very least it shows how often the word "Tyr" is used in the names of characters.

But back to Loki's children -- Bran may not be Bloodraven's actual flesh and blood son, as Fenrir is Loki's, but he is under his influence. The relationship is not to be taken literally. Which leads me to believe Loki's other two children -- Jormungandr, the World Serpent -- and Hel, the Queen of the Dead -- will fall under Bloodraven's spell as well.

But who are they in relation to the books? And what is their connection to the bound trickster, Loki? It all comes down to fire. Not to be confused with Logi, who is a fire giant, Loki is similarly related to fire, as he is thought to have originated from a trickster/fire spirit, in the same vein as Lucifer and Prometheus. Mind you, his role and character have changed over time, so he is no longer the "god of fire", strictly speaking. But it is believed that he may have been exactly that when the religion was in its infancy -- a fallen "Light Bringer" figure. And this is key to understanding Bloodraven's role as the Lord of Light, and the role of the Red Priests in the coming battle.



This post was edited on 6/26 at 10:15 am


Back to top
OaklandFire
Bucknell Fan
Member since Oct 2008
173 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Part 3:

From LINK

Jormungandr -- the World Serpent -- is represented by Daenerys Targaryen, who is obviously linked to dragons/serpents, and is in exile, forced to wander the world (the TV show also makes note of how many different languages she speaks as well). Jormungandr is supposedly so massive, he can circle the world and swallow his tail, which is represented by Quaithe's prophecy to Daenerys -- "to go West, you must go East, etc". Another aspect of Jormungandr's character can be seen in Daenerys' relationship to Robert Baratheon, i.e. the Storm Lord with the war hammer -- Thor. In Norse mythology, Jormungandr & Thor are archenemies, slated to kill one another at Ragnarök, and in A Song of Ice & Fire, Daenerys & Robert Baratheon are archenemies (I happen to think Dany will meet her demise at Robert's ancestral castle, Storm's End -- i.e. Stormborn dies at Storm's End -- but that's for a different post). Dany's family was murdered and her throne usurped by Baratheon, and the enmity even followed her across the sea, as Robert tried to have her assassinated, contrary to honorable Ned's advice. What's more is Jormungandr is not just a serpent, but a sea serpent. Dany's relationship to the sea is represented by her need for ships, and future marriage to Victarion Greyjoy. But it is Victarion's Red Priest, Moqorro, who will bring Daenerys, and her dragons, to Bloodraven's side.

Which brings me to Loki's third child -- Hel, the Queen of the Dead. Hel rules over the dead in an icy underworld called Niflheim (reserved for those unfortunate souls who didn't get into Valhalla). She wears a face that is both half-beautiful, and half-dead, and in her role as Sinmara, she's the consort of Surtr, the fire giant.

Surtr, whose name means "the Black", lives at the Bifrost Bridge -- a bridge separating the world of giants from the world of the gods -- and wields a fiery sword, which he will use to set the world ablaze during Ragnarök. It is foretold that Surtr will break the Bifrost Bridge and lead the Sons of Muspell into the realm of the gods to do battle. The Sons of Muspell are fire giants who live beyond the Bifrost Bridge.

Hel & Surtr are represented by Melisandre & Jon Snow. Melisandre currently resides in an ice world, at the Wall (i.e. the Bifrost Bridge), and wears a glamor to hide the fact that she is either extremely old, or already dead (i.e. two faces). She is also an enemy of the Seven, and obsessed with death and sacrifice, constantly searching for king's blood to feed to her fires. And, up until this point, she has provided Stannis with his fiery sword.

Similarly, Jon Snow has "taken the Black" and lives at the Wall, which separates the realm of the Others from the realm of men. And, even though he too lives in an ice world, his relationship to fire is symbolized by Ygritte, who was "kissed by fire".

This probably means that Melisandre will raise Jon Snow from the dead, similar to the way Thoros resurrects Beric Dondarrion -- and Beric, in turn, raises Catelyn -- and convert him to the Lord of Light. She will then become his "wife", much the same as she was Stannis', and Jon will then assume his role as the Night's King (the Son of Craster Jon & Melisandre are holding will draw the White Walkers to them). And in that role, he will knock down the Wall and lead the "Sons of Muspell" (i.e. the Sons of Craster -- the Others -- White Walkers) into the realm to do battle with mankind (i.e. those who worship the Seven -- which is an allusion to Norse numerology -- although it should be noted, the Norse held the numbers three and nine holy, rather than seven. But it's a subtle difference).

We already know that Melisandre feels more powerful when she is at the Wall (closer to Bloodraven), and Bloodraven & Bran have already appeared to her in her fires (the exact quote from A Dance With Dragons is, "A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment... but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled" -- Ch. 31. I'm assuming that was the first time Bloodraven tried to contact her directly. But it seems likely he probably communes with the High Priest of R'hllor in a similar fashion). And now, she, and her counterpart, Moqorro, are in perfect position to wrest control of both the forces of Ice & Fire in the name of Bloodraven (i.e. the Lord of Light -- who is a sorcerer -- or rather, the "Last Greenseer". I'm assuming the title was passed down to successive generations of greenseers, and is somehow connected to the Asshai'i legend of Azor Ahai -- which they shouldn't even know, being that Azor Ahai was from Westeros, where the Long Night was fought, far from Asshai. I imagine "R'hllor" first started appearing to them in their fires around the same time the First Men started worshipping the Children and their "Old Gods". Or, at least, that's my best guess, at the moment. Because, I'm pretty sure Azor Ahai is a ruse -- at least in the context that the Asshai'i speak of him. Because, if the Children & Humans really fought the Others together, why did the Children end up on the wrong side of the Wall, with the Others?). Also a subtle clue -- in A Dance With Dragons we meet Benerro, the High Priest of R'hllor, whose skin is milk white (just like Bloodraven's -- perhaps he's trying to emulate his "god"?). He delivers a sermon in Volantis that Tyrion happens upon, and rails against Danaerys' enemies, who he singles out as those who "pray to false gods in temples of deceit" (i.e. those who worship the Seven in Westeros/Asgard -- human gods for humankind, rather than sorcerers and necromancers who grant their followers magical powers).

The role of the Red Priests in the upcoming battle is foretold in another prelude to Ragnarök -- the Three Roosters. It is said that three roosters will sound when Ragnarök begins -- a Crimson Rooster, a Golden Rooster (which will raise heroes from the dead) and a Red Rooster (which will crow at the gates of Hel).



This post was edited on 6/26 at 10:16 am


Back to top
OaklandFire
Bucknell Fan
Member since Oct 2008
173 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Part 4:

From LINK

In A Song of Ice and Fire, these roosters are symbolized by the 3 armies that remain in control at the end of the War of the Five Kings. The Crimson Rooster is symbolized by the Lannister army, which is in control of Westeros. The Golden Rooster (which raises heroes from the dead) is symbolized by the Golden Company, which is led by Aegon Targaryen & Jon Connington (i.e. heroes from the dead), and is contesting the Lannister army for power. And lastly, the Red Rooster that crows at the gates of Hel is symbolized by the Red Priests, who are working to control the forces of Ice & Fire (i.e. Jon Snow & his White Walkers by way of Melisandre, and Daenerys Targaryen & her dragons by way of Moqorro, respectively).

Also of interest, the first person to hear these roosters -- the first person to know that Ragnarök has begun -- is a herdsman and harpist named Eggther who is a "ward of giants". He is sitting on a mound, playing his harp when the roosters crow. He is represented by Mance Rayder -- a musician-king who rules over giants and attempts to herd them into the Realm after he sees the first signs of the coming conflagration.

Other Gods & Monsters Represented:

Odin
-Although Odin has many roles and epithets, one of them is the Mad God -- as he is associated with fits of madness & rage -- and is usually depicted as an old man with a long white beard, and shaggy white hair. In the earliest incarnations of Norse mythology, Odin wasn't even worshipped as a god. Tyr is equivalent to Indo-European Dyaeus (the god from which Zeus & Jupiter evolved), and was once the primary god of the pantheon, while Odin was probably a real king who only came to be deified and mythologized much later in the history. Because of this, Odin is not present in the earliest tellings of Ragnarök (same story for Thor). So, I believe it is in this capacity that Odin serves in the ASOIAF novels, and is represented by the Mad King Aerys (who was killed by Jaime -- i.e. Tyr -- another clever twist). Aerys, like Odin, is known as the Mad King, and dies before the events of Ragnarök take place. However, Odin was also known for fathering bastard children, which is the one legacy Aerys left behind. Jaime & Cersei are his bastard twins, by way of the rape of Joanna Lannister (which Barristan Selmy alludes to in his conversations with Dany). This is the real reason why Ilyn Payne had his tongue cut out (for witnessing the incident), and that's why Ilyn Payne laughed at Jaime when he admitted his love for his sister to him. This is also important to the story of Tommen -- the Prince Who Was Promised. Because, Tommen is all 3 gods in one: Odin, Thor & Tyr. Odin (Aerys) is his grandfather. Thor (Robert Baratheon) is his supposed father. And Tyr (Jaime) is his real father, making Tommen Vidarr -- Vengeance -- slayer of Fenrir (which is foreshadowed in A Game of Thrones, when Tommen & Bran spar with each other out on the training grounds of Winterfell).

Thor
-The Storm Lord with the war hammer who hates Jormungandr (Dany) is obviously Robert Baratheon. But in this regard, GRRM is following the same model as with Odin. Thor was not a part of the Norse pantheon when the religion was in its infancy. He was likely a real king who was only deified later in history, and would not have been present in the earliest tellings of Ragnarök. And for this reason, King Robert didn't survive the wild boar that gored him. But, in Robert Baratheon, GRRM also added another story from Norse mythology -- that of Hoenir and Mimir. Hoenir was a "large and powerful" king who was sent to rule over the Vanir after a civil war between the gods (FYI: the Norse pantheon is divided into two Houses -- that of the Vanir & that of the Æsir. Most of the major gods belong to the Æsir, so the Vanir were usually the losers in any kind of conflict or contest between the two). But, unfortunately for the Vanir, Hoenir never wanted to govern. He always wanted others to make decisions for him. And his responsibilities were often dumped on Mimir, his wise counsel, who was forced to rule in his place. Feeling cheated by this arrangement, the Vanir decided to behead Mimir and send his bones back to the Æsir. This is symbolic of the story of King Robert & Ned Stark. Robert was the large & powerful king who came to power after a civil war, but never wanted to rule, and Ned was his wise counsel, who often ruled in his place, but ended up getting his head chopped off after joining the Small Council in King's Landing. Clever how GRRM fit these subplots into the larger story.

Freyr
-Freyr, the phallic deity of male virility, is represented by none other than Walder Frey and his many children (it's even in the name). This goes to show that GRRM has a good sense of humor, because there's very little about him that comes off as "godlike". He's a cruel, conniving weasel... but it's Cersei who says on the TV show that "The gods are cruel. That's why they're gods". That was a big hint as to what's really going on, because GRRM is portraying the gods as oppressive and the giants/monsters as oppressed, which I think is clever. Freyr is foretold to die at the hands of the fire giant Surtr, who is represented by Jon Snow. This makes sense because when Catelyn is resurrected by Beric Dondarrion and converted to the Lord of Light, she becomes obsessed with revenge against the Freys for carrying out the Red Wedding. So, it stands to reason that once Jon is raised, killing Walder Frey will become his primary concern as well (funny too that Jon & Cat will finally see eye-to-eye). Another clue can be found in Walder's ancestral castle -- "the Twins" -- which is an allusion to Freyr & Freyja.

Heimdallr
-Heimdallr is the Watcher. He lives opposite Surtr at the Bifrost Bridge and is symbolized by the horn he sounds to warn the gods at the outset of Ragnarök. What's more is Heimdallr doesn't have a father (he was "born of nine mothers") and is described as the "whitest" or "palest of gods". Samwell Tarly lives with Jon Snow at the Wall and was born on Horn Hill. He was disowned by his father because he's such a cowardly momma's boy (fyi: to "turn white" or "turn pale" is an expression for cowardice). So, I'm assuming Samwell will be the first to notice the changes in Jon Snow, and might also come across some kind of lost information about Bloodraven & the White Walkers while doing his research. He may even find the Horn of Winter as well, which Jon Snow will steal from him and use to knock down the Wall, at which point Samwell will finally send his ravens and warn the people of Westeros of the danger. He will then go on to kill and be killed by Bloodraven, because he will feel guilty for having aided in his capture of Bran, by way of Coldhands (fyi: Heimdallr & Loki are foretold to kill each other at Ragnarök -- which is foreshadowed by the business with "Sam the Slayer". The TV show even took it a step further. Bloodraven's flock signals and draws the White Walker to Samwell, and subsequently chases him after he kills it).



This post was edited on 6/26 at 10:16 am


Back to top


Back to top