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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 6/24/13 at 10:36 pm to PsychTiger
Posted on 6/24/13 at 10:36 pm to PsychTiger
I have no idea what his motives are - good or bad. But I'd think he has some reason to hang around in a cave under the ground in the far north for decades looking through trees and shite.
Hopefully he has a reason anyway. Because I can see the plot device angle but it would be kinda lame if that's all it was.
Hopefully he has a reason anyway. Because I can see the plot device angle but it would be kinda lame if that's all it was.
0
Posted on 6/24/13 at 10:45 pm to ffishstik
quote:
I think that Jon Snow is the Aegon from the vision and the woman in the bed was Lyanna.
I have seen various posts on other sites where it was claimed that Martin has confirmed it was Princess Elia in the vision but I've never found the actual quote. So Spake Martin apparently can only be navigated by date and location and not subject matter.
quote:
My theory is that Aegon had already been born.
Ned found Lyanna "in her bed of blood". I read that as recent childbirth. Very recent.
But Martin has made some cryptic statements about how we all think we know what happened at the ToJ.
Posted on 6/24/13 at 11:04 pm to shinerfan
There almost has to be something amiss with what we know about the Tower of Joy. Otherwise why would Ned and Howland on the one hand and the Kingsguard on the other be fighting to the death when it would seem that both sides would have the protection of Lyanna (and her baby) as their primary goal.
Posted on 6/24/13 at 11:36 pm to Methuselah
And remember that they found him holding Lyanna's body. Not he, (Howland Reed), they.
And Ned travels to Dorne, seemingly with a newborn, to return Dayne's sword to his family, but not his bones? While apparently just traipsing around with his sister's bones?
I don't really have a theory on this one, I just see some holes in the surface story that Martin himself could fit through. There's a good chance that the series' omission of it in its entirety is due to this misconception, whatever it may be.
That struck me as very carefully and ambiguously worded the first time I read it.
And I just learned to spell "ambiguously". Everyday is a school day.
quote:
“I was with her when she died,” Ned reminded the king. “She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father.” He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister’s eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it. “I bring her flowers when I can,” he said. “Lyanna was … fond of flowers.”
And Ned travels to Dorne, seemingly with a newborn, to return Dayne's sword to his family, but not his bones? While apparently just traipsing around with his sister's bones?
I don't really have a theory on this one, I just see some holes in the surface story that Martin himself could fit through. There's a good chance that the series' omission of it in its entirety is due to this misconception, whatever it may be.
quote:
"The finest knight I ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne, who would have killed me but for Howland Reed." His father had become sad then and would not speak any further.
That struck me as very carefully and ambiguously worded the first time I read it.
And I just learned to spell "ambiguously". Everyday is a school day.
This post was edited on 6/25/13 at 10:39 pm
Posted on 6/25/13 at 9:23 am to shinerfan
The job of transporting remains falls to the silent sisters. Ned buried the KG and his friends with stones from the razed TOJ. I don't think he would've left Lyanna behind...but he wouldn't have been able to cherry pick which corpses to haul, certainly not all of them.
In fact, wasn't that one of Lady Dustin's bitches to Theon? Ned didnt even bring Dustin's bones home?
Oh, you better believe it. The theories about Reed's actions re: Ned vs Dayne have spawned volumes in their own right.
In fact, wasn't that one of Lady Dustin's bitches to Theon? Ned didnt even bring Dustin's bones home?
quote:
That struck me as very carefully and ambiguously worded the first time I read it.
Oh, you better believe it. The theories about Reed's actions re: Ned vs Dayne have spawned volumes in their own right.
This post was edited on 6/25/13 at 9:37 am
Posted on 6/25/13 at 9:34 am to shinerfan
So what are everyone's bets on Jon's parentage?
1.)R + L (which I think is the most likely unless Martin is trolling us hard)
2.) Ned & Ashara Dayne
3.) Ned & Wylla
4.) Some other parent mix that GRRM is going to reveal??
1.)R + L (which I think is the most likely unless Martin is trolling us hard)
2.) Ned & Ashara Dayne
3.) Ned & Wylla
4.) Some other parent mix that GRRM is going to reveal??
Posted on 6/25/13 at 9:37 am to ladytiger118
quote:
1.)R + L (which I think is the most likely unless Martin is trolling us hard)
If its anything else I'll live the rest of my life believing that Martin just got mad that everyone figured it out.
Posted on 6/25/13 at 9:39 am to ladytiger118
If the equation is false, I will burn every algebra text on the planet. Followed by Martins books.
It would be disappointing on a massive scale to me at this point.
W Shiner- it would be a cop out on Martins part for sure.
It would be disappointing on a massive scale to me at this point.
W Shiner- it would be a cop out on Martins part for sure.
This post was edited on 6/25/13 at 9:41 am
Posted on 6/25/13 at 9:40 am to shinerfan
quote:
If its anything else I'll live the rest of my life believing that Martin just got mad that everyone figured it out.
Yea we need to be careful with our predictions online...
Posted on 6/25/13 at 9:41 am to shinerfan
quote:
If its anything else I'll live the rest of my life believing that Martin just got mad that everyone figured it out.
I was just asking myself if that old bastard would completely change his story to screw us.
Posted on 6/25/13 at 9:44 am to Yat27
Hasn't he said that he has no intentions on changing his story regardless of what his fans discuss online??
I hope he sticks with what he's said. He swears that he doesn't read fan sites or anything ASOIAF related on the Internet.
I hope he sticks with what he's said. He swears that he doesn't read fan sites or anything ASOIAF related on the Internet.
Posted on 6/25/13 at 9:46 am to Yat27
I hope what fat man is talking about when he says "we think we know what happened at TOJ" he means Ned/Reed vs Dayne. Not R+L=J.
Man that would seriously belittle the series, our beloved thread...my online world would end!!!
No shite. WOW would be in paperback by now
Man that would seriously belittle the series, our beloved thread...my online world would end!!!
quote:
Doesn't read fan sites
No shite. WOW would be in paperback by now
This post was edited on 6/25/13 at 9:49 am
Posted on 6/25/13 at 9:49 am to 19
I still can't believe the amount of shite that Martin has yet to reveal and there's only 2 books left. Both will be ASoS on steroids then if he swears he's only writing 2 more.
Posted on 6/25/13 at 9:54 am to 19
quote:
Oh, you better believe it. The theories about Reed's actions re: Ned vs Dayne have spawned volumes in their own right.
I don't really have a fleshed out theory as to what it means, I just know the phrasing sets my spidey sense atingle.
Posted on 6/25/13 at 9:59 am to ladytiger118
quote:
Hasn't he said that he has no intentions on changing his story regardless of what his fans discuss online??
I don't know, but I hope you're right.
Posted on 6/25/13 at 10:03 am to shinerfan
Here's where I think the entirity of Littlefinger's remaining plot arc is going to go: Sansa will soon marry Harry the Heir in private through Littlefinger. While that happens, the Bolton regime in the North collapses due to a combination of Stannis, the Manderlys, and the Watch/Wildings taking out Ramsay's men when he comes to collect his bride. Cersei will demand that the Vale and Riverlords go take back the North from the Northerners and Stannis. Littlefinger humbly agrees.
Littlefinger takes Sansa and the Vale's army with him, leaving Harry the Heir and Robert (if he's still alive) behind to watch after the Vale. Littlefinger picks up some of the Riverlands' lords and armies on the way (now being the Lord of the Riverlands) as well as intercepting some of the Frey hostages on the way to King's Landing. Eventually he arrives in the Twins to pick up additional Frey forces. Once settled, Littlefinger razes the Twins and kills all the Freys. Some of the Freys escape to the South, but are instantly killed by Nymeria's murderous pack. The Brotherhood Without Banners meanwhile wipe out the Freys at Riverrun.
Littlefinger claims Sansa as the Queen in the North and releases the remaining Frey hostages who all swear their allegiance to her. Sansa is incredibly disturbed by the actions taken due to the fact that no one but the hostages were spared, including the women and children. Littlefinger tells Sansa that she doesn't have what it takes in the end since she has the soft heart of a woman. Sansa then figures out that Littlefinger told Joffrey to execute Ned and is responsible for the destruction of her family. Also at this point, the remaining Lannister allies begin plotting to betray them to Aegon, and the Lannisters are basically destroyed after that (with the exception of possibly Jaime and definitely Tyrion).
Sansa and Littlefinger now make their way up to Winterfell with their whole army, but find the castle almost entirely abandoned. Stannis' previous garrison is now in the North fighting the Others, who by this point have broken through the Wall. Littlefinger finds out and Sansa overhears that Rickon and Bran are still alive, and that Jon Snow has been reborn and is leading all the troops in the North. He becomes much more physically abusive of Sansa at this point since this is the first time his plan has gone awry, even to the point of raping her. Sansa also figures that he is now plotting on killing her remaining family to secure Sansa's claim.
The day of reckoning finally comes, and the Others make their way to Winterfell. There is a brutal battle where all seems lost, but Tyrion riding Viserion and backed up by a portion of Dany's army come over the hill and turn the tide of battle. Tyrion demands their surrender and to unite their army with his, since it's the only way they can survive, or else he'll burn Winterfell to the ground. Sansa pleads with Littlefinger, but Littlefinger refuses and the battle continues, this time with Littlefinger's forces vs Tyrion's. Tyrion however doesn't go through with his word in burning down Winterfell since he respects the place too much and knows that the only person he needs to take down is Littlefinger himself.
Tyrion flies into the castle and sees Littlefinger running into the crypts. Tyrion runs after him. Down in the crypts, Littlefinger ambushes Tyrion nearly killing him. Littlefinger though begins to gloat and tell Tyrion how he outsmarted all his highborn cohorts the entire time, and how he tried to have Tyrion killed numerous times, knowing that he was his only real threat who could see Littlefinger for who he really was. Every time Tyrion would slip barely slip between his fingers, but each time it worked to his advantage. Tyrion surviving Catelyn ensured Harrenhal, surviving Ser Mandon (who he bribed to kill Tyrion) allowed him to take the blame for murdering Joffrey, escaping execution allowed him to kill Tywin and plummet the kingdom into chaos, and now he delivered a dragon to him personally to burn down the kingdom for good.
As he goes in for the kill, Sansa stabs him from behind through the heart with the Valyrian Steel dagger he framed Tyrion with. Littlefinger realizes his error too late and notices that he's at the foot of Ned Stark's tomb. Sansa then helps Tyrion to his feet and sees to his wounds with their Maester. They annul their marriage, unite their armies, and go to join Dany and Jon for the great final battle with the Others.
Littlefinger takes Sansa and the Vale's army with him, leaving Harry the Heir and Robert (if he's still alive) behind to watch after the Vale. Littlefinger picks up some of the Riverlands' lords and armies on the way (now being the Lord of the Riverlands) as well as intercepting some of the Frey hostages on the way to King's Landing. Eventually he arrives in the Twins to pick up additional Frey forces. Once settled, Littlefinger razes the Twins and kills all the Freys. Some of the Freys escape to the South, but are instantly killed by Nymeria's murderous pack. The Brotherhood Without Banners meanwhile wipe out the Freys at Riverrun.
Littlefinger claims Sansa as the Queen in the North and releases the remaining Frey hostages who all swear their allegiance to her. Sansa is incredibly disturbed by the actions taken due to the fact that no one but the hostages were spared, including the women and children. Littlefinger tells Sansa that she doesn't have what it takes in the end since she has the soft heart of a woman. Sansa then figures out that Littlefinger told Joffrey to execute Ned and is responsible for the destruction of her family. Also at this point, the remaining Lannister allies begin plotting to betray them to Aegon, and the Lannisters are basically destroyed after that (with the exception of possibly Jaime and definitely Tyrion).
Sansa and Littlefinger now make their way up to Winterfell with their whole army, but find the castle almost entirely abandoned. Stannis' previous garrison is now in the North fighting the Others, who by this point have broken through the Wall. Littlefinger finds out and Sansa overhears that Rickon and Bran are still alive, and that Jon Snow has been reborn and is leading all the troops in the North. He becomes much more physically abusive of Sansa at this point since this is the first time his plan has gone awry, even to the point of raping her. Sansa also figures that he is now plotting on killing her remaining family to secure Sansa's claim.
The day of reckoning finally comes, and the Others make their way to Winterfell. There is a brutal battle where all seems lost, but Tyrion riding Viserion and backed up by a portion of Dany's army come over the hill and turn the tide of battle. Tyrion demands their surrender and to unite their army with his, since it's the only way they can survive, or else he'll burn Winterfell to the ground. Sansa pleads with Littlefinger, but Littlefinger refuses and the battle continues, this time with Littlefinger's forces vs Tyrion's. Tyrion however doesn't go through with his word in burning down Winterfell since he respects the place too much and knows that the only person he needs to take down is Littlefinger himself.
Tyrion flies into the castle and sees Littlefinger running into the crypts. Tyrion runs after him. Down in the crypts, Littlefinger ambushes Tyrion nearly killing him. Littlefinger though begins to gloat and tell Tyrion how he outsmarted all his highborn cohorts the entire time, and how he tried to have Tyrion killed numerous times, knowing that he was his only real threat who could see Littlefinger for who he really was. Every time Tyrion would slip barely slip between his fingers, but each time it worked to his advantage. Tyrion surviving Catelyn ensured Harrenhal, surviving Ser Mandon (who he bribed to kill Tyrion) allowed him to take the blame for murdering Joffrey, escaping execution allowed him to kill Tywin and plummet the kingdom into chaos, and now he delivered a dragon to him personally to burn down the kingdom for good.
As he goes in for the kill, Sansa stabs him from behind through the heart with the Valyrian Steel dagger he framed Tyrion with. Littlefinger realizes his error too late and notices that he's at the foot of Ned Stark's tomb. Sansa then helps Tyrion to his feet and sees to his wounds with their Maester. They annul their marriage, unite their armies, and go to join Dany and Jon for the great final battle with the Others.
This post was edited on 6/27/13 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 6/25/13 at 10:07 am to ladytiger118
quote:
Hasn't he said that he has no intentions on changing his story regardless of what his fans discuss online??
I say a lot of stuff too.
Posted on 6/25/13 at 10:39 am to shinerfan
I actually wouldn't be horribly shocked in Sansa ultimately ends up remaining married to Tyrion.
Posted on 6/25/13 at 10:49 am to ffishstik
Same here. But I could also see both she and Tyrion reaching a mutual agreement to annul their marriage. However, I have no idea who Sansa would end up with...not many men left. Hot Pie, perhaps?
Posted on 6/25/13 at 10:52 am to ladytiger118
quote:
Same here. But I could also see both she and Tyrion reaching a mutual agreement to annul their marriage. However, I have no idea who Sansa would end up with...not many men left. Hot Pie, perhaps?
That is a good point. I think Sansa will come to realize in the end, that the most handsome men tend to be monsters, and the most disfigured of men are the only ones who have legitimately tried to help her in life.
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