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Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:04 am to CottonWasKing
quote:
Saintsfan's list is now in the OP
quote:
Euron probably took a particularly nasty wench for a salt wife and regretted it so he didnt want anyone talking about it
in fact, this is definitely it
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:26 am to NIH
quote:
What do you guys think the Damphair is doing in TWOW? I remember GRRM persuading the audience to pick that chapter at a reading and they went with Arianne.
I read that, as well - Martin was supposed to have said there was "lot of twisted stuff" in the Damphair chapter. Alot of the opinions at the time were that is was memories of Euron raping/ molesting him as a child (he has already made these creepy refs to memories of the squeaking of his chamber door in the middle of the night...unqualified fear of Euron, etc)
Speaking of Euron, I really like the theory of paying the FM a dragon egg for Balon's death - especially when Euron says he "tossed it into the sea" - if it was payment for Balon being thrown off the bridge at the Pyke, almost a literal description of what happened to the egg.
And then the dream report about the man on the bridge with a drowned crow on his shoulder (Crow's Eye) pretty much seals the deal.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:38 am to 19
quote:
"tossed it into the sea" - if it was payment for Balon being thrown off the bridge at the Pyke, almost a literal description of what happened to the egg.
Well done!
Posted on 4/18/13 at 11:12 am to 19
quote:
I really like the theory of paying the FM a dragon egg for Balon's death - especially when Euron says he "tossed it into the sea" - if it was payment for Balon being thrown off the bridge at the Pyke, almost a literal description of what happened to the egg.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 11:24 am to manwich
quote:
i still think they conspired against the Targs to weed out their dragons and i think they created greyscale to kill off/prevent the return of dragons.
Whoa. Very cool idea.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 11:24 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Have to add my favorite theory here from later pages MANCE=ARTHUR DAYNE
I'm intrigued. Explain right now.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:06 pm to BleedPurpleGold
Yeah, there's like no fricking way.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:10 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Ned Stark did not kill Arthur Dayne-hence his son being nicknamed Ned...
Now this would be something.
Little Ned is one of the most mysterious characters
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:12 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
I'm intrigued. Explain right now.
Well, this was introduced to me by skirpnasty on page 120. There was a bit of discussion at that point. There are some difficulties with it, notably that Mance was at Winterfell when Robert and the Lannisters came to bring Ned to KL, and Robert, Jamie and Ned would likely have recognized him, but after 20 years or so, and him blending in as a musician and knowing to avoid Jamie, it is still very possible.
The most intriguing part to me is the sword fight with Jon. Jon is shocked how good he is, and imagining Dayne toying with JS is just too fricking cool IMO.
Not to mention Ned going to Starfall to return Dawn out of respect, and years later the future Lord of House Dayne being named Edric and nicknamed "Ned".
I believe Ned and Dayne made a pact that Ned would protect JS's identity and Dayne went to The Wall with Benjen and went beyond The Wall to bring the wildlings to safety as King Beyond The Wall when The Others began threatening.
Anyway, here is skirpnasty's OP from 120 with some highlights, and a link to page 120 so you can read some of the discussion on it. Not everyone buys it ftr:
quote:
When talking to Bran about Knights he says "the best I ever knew was Ser Arthur Dayne, who would have killed me had it not been for Howland Reed", he then became sad and wouldn't speak about it further. Reed stepped in the way and was killed to save Ned, Dayne yielded when he realized Ned was going to do Jon no harm and Ned made him take the black because he would have refused to join Robert's Kings guard.
Jaime says when talking to the kings guard, "I learned from the best who has ever lived, Ser Arthur Dayne, who could slay all 5 of you with his left hand while taking a piss with his right". Curious that despite him being that good Ned (who as great as he is has never been refered to as a masterful swordsman) supposedly killed him in single combat.
Mance was supposedly fathered on the wall after they found him as a child, fathering children is directly against their vows and they would have taken him somewhere else to be fostered. He claims to have never met Benjen which would be nearly impossible in such a small watch, I think it is more likely that benjen took the black with him under Ned's request.
We have a first hand account of Mance's skill with a long sword and his strength through Jon when Jon thinks it is Rattleshirt, he wouldn't have learned to be that good with a sword on the wall.
In GoT when talking about the king beyond the wall, Ned tells Cat "we have nothing to fear of Mance Rayder". Why would he have nothing to fear if he didn't know him?
Last but not least in 15 years since nobody has seen or heard of Howland Reed, even when Robb raised his banners. It isn't because he is keeping the secret of Jon it's because he died at the ToJ.
It explains the father like agenda Mance shows to Jon, it shows why Mel actually saved him, and it shows why Mance is now doing Jon's bidding. He is the fricking sword of the morning and still sees his allegiance as a knight of the kings guard to Jon, the rightful king in his mind. When this unfolds it's going to be the most bad arse thing ever.
This post was edited on 4/18/13 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:16 pm to Tiger Voodoo
That is my favorite post in the entire thread.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:18 pm to glassman
Mind explosion. That was a great post
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:19 pm to Tiger Voodoo
Okay, Howland fathered Jojen and Meera after the Tower of Joy so I seriously doubt he's dead.
Mance was supposedly born from wildlings.
It doesn't explain why Ned returned the sword "Dawn" to Ashara Dayne in Sunspear after the ToJ.
Ashara threw herself off a cliff after hearing the news of her brother and Ned's upcoming wedding to Catelyn.
Her body was never recovered...
:nurse:
Mance was supposedly born from wildlings.
It doesn't explain why Ned returned the sword "Dawn" to Ashara Dayne in Sunspear after the ToJ.
Ashara threw herself off a cliff after hearing the news of her brother and Ned's upcoming wedding to Catelyn.
Her body was never recovered...
:nurse:
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:21 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
quote:
When Lord Commander Qorgyle pays a visit to Winterfell some years after Robert Baratheon's crowning, Mance Rayder is one of the dozen men who escort him. He speaks briefly with the young Robb Stark and Jon Snow, promising not to reveal a prank they are preparing.
Hmm I need to know more about thus visit to winter fell but it could be the killer
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:23 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
There are some difficulties with it, notably that Mance was at Winterfell when Robert and the Lannisters came to bring Ned to KL, and Robert, Jamie and Ned would likely have recognized him, but after 20 years or so, and him blending in as a musician and knowing to avoid Jamie, it is still very possible.
There are many more difficulties than that. One of the most well known knights in the kingsguard would be recognizable to half the realm, not just Jaime.
quote:
Last but not least in 15 years since nobody has seen or heard of Howland Reed, even when Robb raised his banners. It isn't because he is keeping the secret of Jon it's because he died at the ToJ.
This theory doesn't hold water because Howland's kids would not have been born until till after he got back from the war. And Jojen and Meera both talk about their father being alive.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:23 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
quote:
Okay, Howland fathered Jojen and Meera after the Tower of Joy so I seriously doubt he's dead.
Yeah, that part I do not buy either. Howland is alive IMO.
quote:
Mance was supposedly born from wildlings.
Eh, no one knows much about his beginnings. That could just be his backstory.
quote:
It doesn't explain why Ned returned the sword "Dawn" to Ashara Dayne in Sunspear after the ToJ.
Ashara threw herself off a cliff after hearing the news of her brother and Ned's upcoming wedding to Catelyn.
Her body was never recovered...
I think he took it there out of respect and at the request of Dayne himself. I don't think many people actually believe Ashara is dead. I think she has a role to play in the R+L=JS coverup as well that will be revealed in time.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:28 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
I've got a maybe not so crazy theory that Darkstar is the son of Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne. It's implied that Brandon and Ashara hooked up during the tourney at Harrenhall. Would explain why Darkstar is still a Dayne eventhough I do believe he is a bastard, because he's a royal bastard.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:31 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
I don't think many people actually believe Ashara is dead. I think she has a role to play in the R+L=JS coverup as well that will be revealed in time.
Little Ned just got explained.
ETA: kind of
This post was edited on 4/18/13 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:32 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Yeah, that part I do not buy either. Howland is alive IMO.
The thing that reinforces this for me is that on the show Jojen mentioned about telling his Father about Ned's death. Not only that, but I think it'd be safe to say the Reeds could figure out if their Dad wasn't actually their Dad.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:34 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
It would be awesome but I still don't buy it
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