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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 4/8/13 at 1:52 pm to BluegrassBelle
Posted on 4/8/13 at 1:52 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
I'm going with Benjen Stark as the guy that comes back in a big, big way.
Coldhands?
1
Posted on 4/8/13 at 1:53 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
quote:
Coldhands?
I'm pretty sure he got shot down as Coldhands as well at some point.
I'm still convinced he shows up in Winterfell somehow or possibly is rolling with the Others at this point.
Posted on 4/8/13 at 2:01 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
quote:
-His bookish nature often seen in Targaryens
Samwell Tarly is into books when the rest of his family clearly isn't, so I don't really see it as true.
quote:
-His boyhood dreams of Dragons
I'm just thinking that's more prophesy. I do think he'll ride a dragon eventually.
quote:
-Varys and Illyrio's unexplained loyalty and friendship to Tyrion
They're not loyal or really friends with Tyrion. They just know they can use Tyrion to their advantage. He's intelligent, resourceful, his family despises him, he's greatly underestimated, aspires for greatness, knows a ton about dragons, and they could offer him Casterly Rock if he'll take down his remaining family.
quote:
-It would get him off the hook as a kinslayer
Which would be bullshite.
quote:
And who are the first three chapters from in A Dance With Dragons?.... Tyrion, Daenerys, and Jon.
I'd say its more the fact that each of them accidentally killed their mother when coming out of the womb.
This post was edited on 4/8/13 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 4/8/13 at 2:08 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
They're not loyal or really friends with Tyrion.
I don't know, Varys took a huge risk smuggling Tyrion off to Pentos...
Basically committing treason just for the Imp to assist in his plans?
It doesn't add up.
Posted on 4/8/13 at 2:20 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
quote:
I don't know, Varys took a huge risk smuggling Tyrion off to Pentos...
Not like he had too much of a choice with Jaime at his throat. Plus Varys in his position wasn't really needed anymore, and he had to take a more active part on Aegon and Dany coming to Westeros.
quote:
Basically committing treason just for the Imp to assist in his plans?
The Imp is going to get the dragons to him. Dany doesn't have a clue what she is doing with them, and neither did anyone in Aegon's party. Plus Tyrion does give strategically sound advice and proved himself in Blackwater. Varys is probably pretty pissed at him right now that he manipulated Aegon to come back, but he can still serve his purpose by getting Dany and her dragons to Westeros.
Posted on 4/8/13 at 3:49 pm to OMLandshark
**I'm going to type all of this out with the possibility that it was all covered earlier in the thread and I just missed it. I think I finally figured out Varys and Illyrio's original plan.
Not to derail the Tyrion topic, he's not a Targ, but I just started thinking of something while reading the hypothetical thread. After 3 reads of this series, I could never figure out why Varys and Illyrio were helping Viserys and Dany in GoT, then in DwD, they are all of a sudden Aegon enthusiasts. I could not see how they could support both and I passed it off as they thought Viserys would be killed for being a dick and Dany would just stay on the other side of the world. But then this hypo thread comes around and I think I wrapped my head around it.
Illyrio and Varys set up that marriage with the idea that they would make it to the 7 Kingdoms with a Dothraki horde to attempt to overthrow Robert Baratheon. Now personally, I think the knights of Westeros in their metal armor, castles, and modernized weapons, would have won a long drawn out war. But that doesn't even really matter. Whoever won was sure to be severely weakened by the war and would be ill fit to fight off another threat. So a few year's pass and here comes Aegon Blackfyre "Targaryen" to claim the Iron Throne.
Now obviously plans change when Drogo and Viserys die, and 3 freaking dragons start flying around. The two most "at the time" prominent players of the game, attempt to roll with it and attach Aegon to Dany to increase their chances. They expect Dany to sympathize and marry her nephew, because Targ's are weird and shite, and Aegon to do what he is told. By the end of the book, Varys and Illyrio are left scrambling when they realize that a pair of teenagers with crazy in their blood don't listen all that well. They are, like so many others in this series, another example of players that think they are controlling everyone, whose plan is reduced to ashes. As it stands now, they have no real power, but do have pieces in place to make some noise.
Not to derail the Tyrion topic, he's not a Targ, but I just started thinking of something while reading the hypothetical thread. After 3 reads of this series, I could never figure out why Varys and Illyrio were helping Viserys and Dany in GoT, then in DwD, they are all of a sudden Aegon enthusiasts. I could not see how they could support both and I passed it off as they thought Viserys would be killed for being a dick and Dany would just stay on the other side of the world. But then this hypo thread comes around and I think I wrapped my head around it.
Illyrio and Varys set up that marriage with the idea that they would make it to the 7 Kingdoms with a Dothraki horde to attempt to overthrow Robert Baratheon. Now personally, I think the knights of Westeros in their metal armor, castles, and modernized weapons, would have won a long drawn out war. But that doesn't even really matter. Whoever won was sure to be severely weakened by the war and would be ill fit to fight off another threat. So a few year's pass and here comes Aegon Blackfyre "Targaryen" to claim the Iron Throne.
Now obviously plans change when Drogo and Viserys die, and 3 freaking dragons start flying around. The two most "at the time" prominent players of the game, attempt to roll with it and attach Aegon to Dany to increase their chances. They expect Dany to sympathize and marry her nephew, because Targ's are weird and shite, and Aegon to do what he is told. By the end of the book, Varys and Illyrio are left scrambling when they realize that a pair of teenagers with crazy in their blood don't listen all that well. They are, like so many others in this series, another example of players that think they are controlling everyone, whose plan is reduced to ashes. As it stands now, they have no real power, but do have pieces in place to make some noise.
Posted on 4/8/13 at 4:31 pm to Mr. Wayne
I like the idea that they had multiple plans of action in place. It fits with Varys and his ideas. He anticipates and waits for little things to tingle in his web and then he reacts.
I am curious though if they would have tried to mount a two part rebellion and let it hinge on the Dothraki losing. I think they were hedging their bets and backing two parties because both had the possibility to work.
Something else sticks out for me too. Is it possible that Illyrio was privy to foreknowledge of Dany hatching the eggs? It just seems strange that he would part with 3 things so rare and expensive unless he knew what was about to go down. Maybe he has a red priest on the payroll or has knows of some other prophecy?
I am curious though if they would have tried to mount a two part rebellion and let it hinge on the Dothraki losing. I think they were hedging their bets and backing two parties because both had the possibility to work.
Something else sticks out for me too. Is it possible that Illyrio was privy to foreknowledge of Dany hatching the eggs? It just seems strange that he would part with 3 things so rare and expensive unless he knew what was about to go down. Maybe he has a red priest on the payroll or has knows of some other prophecy?
Posted on 4/8/13 at 4:47 pm to Papercutninja
Oh I forgot to mention I think Aegon is the son of Illyrio and his Blackfyre wife. He is trying to fulfill his wife's dying wish to put the last of her bloodline, who I also suspect to be the true heirs from back in Daemon's time, on the Iron Throne.
Posted on 4/8/13 at 5:11 pm to Mr. Wayne
Initally I thought Varys was just playing multiple hands and Aegon was the backup to the Dany/Viserys plan in case it didn't work out. The way you put it though as Aegon has been the plan the entire time and using Dany/Viserys initially makes more sense though, I think. This way its a win-win situation for them. If Dany & Viserys win back the 7 Kingdoms they can bring in Aegon and he is the actual rightful heir to the throne (as long as no one questions him as the real Aegon and if they do they can just eliminate them as need be). If not, as you said the 7 Kingdoms are weakened and in a similar situation to what is currently happening.
Posted on 4/8/13 at 5:20 pm to BlackleafBaller
Why then, would Yllirio give 3 dragon aggs to Danny? Did he not know she would hatch them?
Posted on 4/8/13 at 5:27 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
he didn't think they would hatch
they were to help convey a sense of real royalty for Drogo to see in Dany.
they were to help convey a sense of real royalty for Drogo to see in Dany.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 7:22 am to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:
Why then, would Yllirio give 3 dragon aggs to Danny? Did he not know she would hatch them?
If he knew they would hatch, he would have done so.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 8:00 am to Sid in Lakeshore
The Targaryens had been repeatedly trying and dying attempting this for years to no avail. I don't think anyone thought it was possible at this point.
ETA - unless Varys, Illyrio, or Aegon is actually a Targ/Blackfyre and dreamt/prophesied then interpreted it occuring
ETA - unless Varys, Illyrio, or Aegon is actually a Targ/Blackfyre and dreamt/prophesied then interpreted it occuring
This post was edited on 4/9/13 at 8:03 am
Posted on 4/9/13 at 12:08 pm to BlackleafBaller
quote:
The Targaryens had been repeatedly trying and dying attempting this for years to no avail. I don't think anyone thought it was possible at this point.
That is how Dunk and Egg die.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 12:10 pm to BlackleafBaller
Crackpot theory:
Ned told Jon Snow he would tell him the truth about his mother the next time he saw him.
Jon Snow is probably in a coma at this point and is visited by Ned who reveals the truth about his mother and father Lyanna and Rhaegar.
Ned may also explain how Lyanna and Rhaegar were secretly married and Jon is in fact, not a bastard. I realizes Rhaegar would have been married to Elia also at this time but whatever.
Ned explains how he had to keep it secret because Robert Baratheon would have surely killed him if anyone knew his true identity.
The members of the Night's Watch probably consider him dead and say the words "And now his watch has ended."
This gives him the "out" of the Night's Watch he needed to serve his true purpose.
Jon comes back, probably through some of Melisandre's sorcery and wrecks shite as Jon Targaryen.
Ned told Jon Snow he would tell him the truth about his mother the next time he saw him.
Jon Snow is probably in a coma at this point and is visited by Ned who reveals the truth about his mother and father Lyanna and Rhaegar.
Ned may also explain how Lyanna and Rhaegar were secretly married and Jon is in fact, not a bastard. I realizes Rhaegar would have been married to Elia also at this time but whatever.
Ned explains how he had to keep it secret because Robert Baratheon would have surely killed him if anyone knew his true identity.
The members of the Night's Watch probably consider him dead and say the words "And now his watch has ended."
This gives him the "out" of the Night's Watch he needed to serve his true purpose.
Jon comes back, probably through some of Melisandre's sorcery and wrecks shite as Jon Targaryen.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 12:57 pm to BloodSweat&Beers
quote:
That is how Dunk and Egg die
aww man.... I'm reading those now...
Posted on 4/9/13 at 12:58 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
quote:
Jon Snow is probably in a coma at this point and is visited by Ned who reveals the truth about his mother and father Lyanna and Rhaegar.
Do you think Ned would have told Cat anything?
Posted on 4/9/13 at 1:01 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
aww man.... I'm reading those now...
quote:
SPOILERS
Posted on 4/9/13 at 1:09 pm to manwich
quote:
SPOILERS
I didn't even know those existed until this thread. I'm not worried about it though. It's the journey that counts
Posted on 4/9/13 at 1:12 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
Do you think Ned would have told Cat anything?
Hell no, at least while Robert Baratheon was alive, that was probably part of the Promise made to Lyanna.
And you know Ned ain't breaking his promise.
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