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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 11/20/12 at 9:48 pm to auyushu
Posted on 11/20/12 at 9:48 pm to auyushu
Sorry to divert. Currently on third trip through series. Wrapping up Storm of Swords. Now of the opinion the battle for the throne will be an after thought in light of the battle of Rhillor vs the great Other coming at the wall. Rhillor has influenced fall of Renly, Rob Stark, Greyjoy, and Joff, paving the way for Tommen. The great Other has had less direct influence and will only potentially be controlled by Bran and Jon Stark potentially paired up with Dany's dragons. I think there is a strong chance Tommen will remain King and all the efforts of the three heads of the dragon will focus on saving the kingdom at the Wall.
1
Posted on 11/20/12 at 9:54 pm to GeauxTigers18
Jon will be King of Winterfell that will deal with fallout after the Others are defeated and the Wall comes down. I dont think Rhillor makes it either. Grand winner will be Bran and the children of the forest and their ancient religion. Dany will never see the throne. Tyrion will reunite with Jamie and Tommen once Cersei is taken out. Dragons will be gone again once The Others are sent packing.
This post was edited on 11/20/12 at 9:57 pm
Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:25 pm to GeauxTigers18
I can see all of your proposed story arcs playing out except one. I don't think Tommen is going to live very much longer. He could very well make it through TWOW, but not though the end of the last book. Based on Maggie's prophesy of Cercei, she will see Tommen dead and buried.
Posted on 11/20/12 at 10:41 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
I can see all of your proposed story arcs playing out except one. I don't think Tommen is going to live very much longer. He could very well make it through TWOW, but not though the end of the last book. Based on Maggie's prophesy of Cercei, she will see Tommen dead and buried.
Yeah, wouldn't be shocked if the book ended with Tommen's death and Cersei fleeing the castle. Cersei will be among the last characters to die in the series, when literally everything she ever held dear is ripped from her.
Posted on 11/20/12 at 11:08 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 11/21/12 at 1:10 am to NIH
It gets my attention every single time it plays
Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:29 am to Carson123987
Just got to wondering about something. It is referenced many times in the book how hard a people the Northerners are and even said that they are likely to succeed in battle when outnumbered because one of them is worth more than one of the enemy. But of all the Kingslayers, Barristan the Bold's, Gerold Hightower, Sword of the Morning, Dragon Knight, Daemon Blackfyre, Ryam Redwines etc... Where the hell are the northmen? I don't know of one that could be put in the category of these figures. Do they spend too much time huddled up around a fire instead of out in the practice yard?
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:43 pm to Mr. Wayne
I think Southern knights have more of a mystique because the south worships chivalry, knights, etc. Kind of like Sansa's infatuation with all of that before Ned's death. In the North if you're a good fighter you just don't get the same regocnition. I have no doubt the GreatJon could go toe to toe with anyone in Westeros and by all means Robb was no slouch in battle for someone his age.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 1:08 pm to Mr. Wayne
I think that the knights (Im sure you meant King's Guard) you mentioned can be likened to Ali, Foreman, Max Baer, etc. Glory-driven to an extent, but extremely skilled in hand to hand combat, trained by the best, excellent swordsmen and deserving of the popularity/ regard. Some, if not all, are born with God-given talent like Barristan, but their name and House's political status played a big part in their selection- the opportunistic rich boys, if you will, with a few exceptions.
The Northmen are more your blue collar no-names that can clear out a barroom brawl without cracking a nail. Physical presence of the members of the ancient houses (Mormont, Stark, Umber)due to evolution in action(those with increased body mass for insulation/vs. the cold more likely to survive and reproduce)plus experience (growing up fighting each other, sparring with bigger and stronger partners) An example - Brandon Stark was said to be a pretty big dude, as was Lord Rickard before him...yet LF referred to Ned as "an even more impressive specimen" Probably little in the way of technique as a whole, but more fierce and tougher than your average legend. Can take absorb a whole lot of punishment and still deliver death blows.
The Northmen are more your blue collar no-names that can clear out a barroom brawl without cracking a nail. Physical presence of the members of the ancient houses (Mormont, Stark, Umber)due to evolution in action(those with increased body mass for insulation/vs. the cold more likely to survive and reproduce)plus experience (growing up fighting each other, sparring with bigger and stronger partners) An example - Brandon Stark was said to be a pretty big dude, as was Lord Rickard before him...yet LF referred to Ned as "an even more impressive specimen" Probably little in the way of technique as a whole, but more fierce and tougher than your average legend. Can take absorb a whole lot of punishment and still deliver death blows.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 1:37 pm to 19
quote:
Im sure you meant King's Guard
Not really. I have Daemon Blackfyre in there and he is probably better than all of them. Just most prominent knights in this series seem to be Kingsguard. I also like Fireball and Baelor Breakspear.
It's just odd that ASoIaF history doesn't remember them as well. Maybe GRRM is paying extreme attention to detail and honoring his stance that singer's don't like to go North and therefore their stories are not passed down. Still doesn't add up to me.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 3:22 pm to Mr. Wayne
Nobody remembers the great players on the losing team. The north bent the knee and since has been more about the north than defending the kingdom or opposing the throne. Brandon Stark was mentioned to be an excellent swordsman, as were all the Starks we know of. The north is just separated from the rest of the kingdom, it really is its on world. Even with Robert and Ned being best friends Robert hadn't visited Winterfell ever as far as I know.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 5:03 pm to skirpnasty
I took that as respect for the average Northerner. The South glorifies the knights, which leads to a lot of training and competition at the highest level, but when an actual war breaks out, the southern smallfolk are completely soft, untrained and untested. The North has the brutal winters, the predatory wildlife. the wildling raiders. . .
Posted on 11/21/12 at 5:54 pm to Mr. Wayne
Like y'all mentioned, knighthood in the North was second to being a good warrior. I remember Luwin mentioning something like that to Bran when Rob called his banners. I think a lot of the knight stuff is wrapped up in the Seven, Northerners are "meh" about all that.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 8:23 pm to Jubilee
The difference in the gods actually makes a lot of sense. Their probably were no knights in the North before the Conquest. And afterwards they were probably just not held to the same standards. Still would like to hear about heroes of the North though
Posted on 11/21/12 at 9:46 pm to Jubilee
quote:
I think a lot of the knight stuff is wrapped up in the Seven,
Yeah, knights will usually be anointed by a septon and have to be a follower of the faith. Any knight can make another knight, but I think that's frowned upon. I think most of the knights in the north are bannermen of the Manderlys who came from the south and follow the seven.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 10:06 pm to shelly
I had a question about this before, far as I could tell, none of the Kingsguard had any Northerners who follow the Old Gods or Iron Men who follow the Drowned God. They are all good fighters but have not been knighted in the name of the Seven, so they get looked down upon by some knights from the South. I cannot remember his name, but the kid from the Vale who was Jon Arryan squire was knighted and though he was better than Ned's man, Jorry (SP?), even though Jorry was a better fighter.
Posted on 11/22/12 at 12:01 am to ornagestorm
Religion is really an excellent point. Since the The Seven /The Faith was brought to Westeros, is the very concept of Knighthood, including the title "Ser" completely Andal in origin? I saw no evidence of knights or the title existing at all with The First Men. Only runes. and The old gods/ WW trees, all adopted from TCotF.
What about the Targs/ Valyria? Did they worship the Lord of Light? What was their religion prior to The War of Conquest? They seem to have adopted The Faith at some point...before Baelor, I would think...unless his reign established The Seven as the Royal Religion officially...?
Are you talking about the Knight that showed up for The Hand's Tourney in a brand spanking new suit of armour, was rude to Jory and refused to speak to Ned till after the joust...but ended up with a broken lance in his throat?
I don't remember his name, either.
What about the Targs/ Valyria? Did they worship the Lord of Light? What was their religion prior to The War of Conquest? They seem to have adopted The Faith at some point...before Baelor, I would think...unless his reign established The Seven as the Royal Religion officially...?
quote:
I cannot remember his name, but the kid from the Vale who was Jon Arryan squire was knighted and though he was better than Ned's man, Jorry (SP?), even though Jorry was a better fighter.
Are you talking about the Knight that showed up for The Hand's Tourney in a brand spanking new suit of armour, was rude to Jory and refused to speak to Ned till after the joust...but ended up with a broken lance in his throat?
I don't remember his name, either.
This post was edited on 11/22/12 at 12:06 am
Posted on 11/22/12 at 1:04 am to 19
quote:
Since the The Seven /The Faith was brought to Westeros, is the very concept of Knighthood, including the title "Ser" completely Andal in origin?
Yup, pretty sure that's the case.
quote:
What about the Targs/ Valyria? Did they worship the Lord of Light? What was their religion prior to The War of Conquest?
They worshiped different gods, but we don't know much about them. I think all we know is that Aegon's dragons were named after 3 gods in Valyria - Belarion, Meraxes, and Vhagar. Also, I'm pretty sure Aegon followed the Seven, but I don't know if he converted once he conquered Westeros or if he always did. Most likely after his conquest if I were to guess.
Posted on 11/22/12 at 1:11 am to shelly
Posted on 11/22/12 at 10:30 am to shelly
Aegon was anointed by the high septon after he conquered Westeros. The dating system used in Westeros started on the day he met with the high septon. He converted because he thought it would lead to fewer rebellions of he was a member of the local faith
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