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Started By
Message
Reality of Lyles situation
Posted on 7/21/11 at 8:22 am
Posted on 7/21/11 at 8:22 am
When LSU bought the film from Lyles, it was a legit purchase. Whether the films were poor or perfect, the ncaa allowed these purchases across the entire nation by ALOT of schools fram many recruiting services.
It does not matter if we find out Lyles was doing totally illegal acts between himself and the players, as long as LSU didn't know this, they were allowed per NCAA rules to purchase recruiting film, period.
On LSU's part, it simply wasn't an illegal act at the time, so I can't see how the ncaa could possibly act on the purchase now. Even if LSU's intentions were bad and we simply were paying a scout for his help, WE BOUGHT FILM and the practice was allowed by the NCAA.
UNLESS, you are Oregon, and you didn't receive the tapes at the time of the purchase, then, of course, you are paying a scout for nothing and trying to cover your arse.
But, we are just talking about Lyles....understand there are probably 20+ big programs that pay for the same services, just not from Lyles. SO IF they try to say LSU was bad, they have to say everyone else was bad also.
Oregon not receiving the tapes is why they are screwed, everyone else "should" be ok.....
It does not matter if we find out Lyles was doing totally illegal acts between himself and the players, as long as LSU didn't know this, they were allowed per NCAA rules to purchase recruiting film, period.
On LSU's part, it simply wasn't an illegal act at the time, so I can't see how the ncaa could possibly act on the purchase now. Even if LSU's intentions were bad and we simply were paying a scout for his help, WE BOUGHT FILM and the practice was allowed by the NCAA.
UNLESS, you are Oregon, and you didn't receive the tapes at the time of the purchase, then, of course, you are paying a scout for nothing and trying to cover your arse.
But, we are just talking about Lyles....understand there are probably 20+ big programs that pay for the same services, just not from Lyles. SO IF they try to say LSU was bad, they have to say everyone else was bad also.
Oregon not receiving the tapes is why they are screwed, everyone else "should" be ok.....
7
Posted on 7/21/11 at 8:24 am to the LSUSaint
quote:
as long as LSU didn't know this
Hoping for the best, but its pretty obvious we did.
Posted on 7/21/11 at 8:35 am to the LSUSaint
we paid Lyles for his access to recruits and their families, not for some random collection of slightly useful and mostly useless video. if we were shelling out thousands for only videos we would have verified beforehand they were all legit and worth it
Posted on 7/21/11 at 8:38 am to Dan
quote:
Posted by Dan
we paid Lyles for his access to recruits and their families, not for some random collection of slightly useful and mostly useless video. if we were shelling out thousands for only videos we would have verified beforehand they were all legit and worth it
Yup
Posted on 7/21/11 at 8:48 am to Dan
quote:
we paid Lyles for his access to recruits and their families, not for some random collection of slightly useful and mostly useless video. if we were shelling out thousands for only videos we would have verified beforehand they were all legit and worth it
LSU paid companies that employed Lyles in 2008 and 2009. Do you know how much of the money LSU paid went to Lyles? Do you know what LSU received in exchange for its money in 2008 and 2009? I haven't read any reports that indicate what LSU received in exchange, but that could be an indicator that the NCAA was satisfied that the transactions were legitimate, and considers those years to be non-issues.
Posted on 7/21/11 at 8:54 am to tigabait01
I have said from the beginning (while admitting that I have pessimistic tendencies) that I felt like we would get burned by our associations with Lyles. I still think that will be the case. I think LSU and Oregon will both end up losing schollies and a post-season appearance over this issue.
Posted on 7/21/11 at 8:58 am to DeltaDoc
You crazy. ESPN has got into your head. Totally legit, MUCH different than Oregon, and won't be problematic with the NCAA.
Posted on 7/21/11 at 8:59 am to DeltaDoc
I just don't see LSU and o being in the same boat on this one. We (at the very least) had videos we purchased, no matter what the quality. Oregon didn't even get videos (till after the fact). And THEN, Kelly ordered them to be sent when Yahoo was coming out with the story.
I do not doubt that all of LSU's intentions were not above board, but it is the NCAA itself that ALLOWED these companies to exist and prosper selling recruit "information" to universitites.
This is NO ONES fault but the NCAA's. Now, if you didn't receive what you paid for (vidoes), the NCAA should have been called in! SOrry O, you are screwed.
I do not doubt that all of LSU's intentions were not above board, but it is the NCAA itself that ALLOWED these companies to exist and prosper selling recruit "information" to universitites.
This is NO ONES fault but the NCAA's. Now, if you didn't receive what you paid for (vidoes), the NCAA should have been called in! SOrry O, you are screwed.
Posted on 7/21/11 at 9:01 am to Dan
quote:
we paid Lyles for his access to recruits and their families, not for some random collection of slightly useful and mostly useless video. if we were shelling out thousands for only videos we would have verified beforehand they were all legit and worth it
So are all the schools that paid recruiting services for videos and the like going down? There would be no college football.
Posted on 7/21/11 at 9:05 am to spslayto
quote:
So are all the schools that paid recruiting services for videos and the like going down?
If there is evidence that coaches at all of those schools accompanied the owner of those recruiting services to high school practices and that the owner of those recruiting services accompanied the recruits on official visits to those schools, then they are all probably going down. Yes.
Posted on 7/21/11 at 9:07 am to the LSUSaint
Would LSU giving ESPN the tapes violate the gag order the NCAA placed on LSU? Or were these vids released prior?
Posted on 7/21/11 at 9:14 am to lsu711
Because the NCAA has placed so many restrictions on the amount of time and evaluation coaches can spend on recruiting, they've essentially tied their hands and forced programs to rely on these recruiting services and even these rogue recruiters who are shady. So in a small way, the NCAA has to accept some responsibility that they've created this unhealthy reliance on recruiting services.
LSU's fault lies in not vetting this Lyles character and in not using credible services.
LSU's fault lies in not vetting this Lyles character and in not using credible services.
Posted on 7/21/11 at 9:30 am to augustbengal
BUT, if you are interested in a recruit that is part of one of the services, tehn aren't you being forced to get information from that service? Or you could spend triple the time and money and try to do it on your own.
Tha fact still exists that the NCAA sanctioned these services. And until they come out with "officially licensed" services with a complete set of rules pertaining to them, tehn this is ALL the NCAA's fault.
LSU didn't pay a stupid amount for the service and they did receive the material.
O, on the other hand, did niether!
Tha fact still exists that the NCAA sanctioned these services. And until they come out with "officially licensed" services with a complete set of rules pertaining to them, tehn this is ALL the NCAA's fault.
LSU didn't pay a stupid amount for the service and they did receive the material.
O, on the other hand, did niether!
Posted on 7/21/11 at 9:48 am to the LSUSaint
The official story:
LSU paid the company that Willie Lyles worked for the going rate for video and scouting reports.
The reality:
LSU paid the company that Willie Lyles worked for the going rate for him to not negatively affect the situation with certain kids he had influence with.
Oregon paid Willie Lyles directly for him to steer kids their way. Then they promised to put him on retainer for future work. Then they tried to cover up the relationship with bogus video and reports.
LSU paid the company that Willie Lyles worked for the going rate for video and scouting reports.
The reality:
LSU paid the company that Willie Lyles worked for the going rate for him to not negatively affect the situation with certain kids he had influence with.
Oregon paid Willie Lyles directly for him to steer kids their way. Then they promised to put him on retainer for future work. Then they tried to cover up the relationship with bogus video and reports.
Posted on 7/21/11 at 9:53 am to spslayto
quote:
So are all the schools that paid recruiting services for videos and the like going down? There would be no college football.
No
Posted on 7/21/11 at 10:01 am to Guava Jelly
quote:
Would LSU giving ESPN the tapes violate the gag order the NCAA placed on LSU? Or were these vids released prior?
First of all, the NCAA really has no power to place anyone under a "gag order". People act like the NCAA has legal powers, but it doesn't. That being said, LSU was legally required to produce the video as a public institution because ESPN made the request through the Freedom of Information Act.
Posted on 7/21/11 at 10:11 am to the LSUSaint
Who do we have on the team that has been rumored to be associated with Lyles? Trevon Randle? Or has that been proven false? Are there any others?
This post was edited on 7/21/11 at 10:12 am
Posted on 7/21/11 at 10:20 am to Dan
quote:
we paid Lyles for his access to recruits and their families, not for some random collection of slightly useful and mostly useless video. if we were shelling out thousands for only videos we would have verified beforehand they were all legit and worth it
We still paid an acceptable fee for the videos gathered by him (relative to other programs). That's the bottom line. Didn't we use that same company before/after Lyles was involved?
This post was edited on 7/21/11 at 10:24 am
Posted on 7/21/11 at 10:24 am to the LSUSaint
I hope you're right
Posted on 7/21/11 at 10:26 am to Dan
Will Lyles showed up again Wednesday night. It has been well documented that LSU paid $6,000 to Complete Scouting Services, a recruiting service run by Will Lyles. LSU paid for the "JUCO per state package" for the states of Kansas and California. This package was listed on Complete Scouting's website for $3,000. Purchasing two states is where the $6,000 figure comes from.
On Wednesday evening, ESPN's Kelly Naqi released a story that detailed the videos and materials that LSU received for that payment. The story claims that many of the videos that LSU received were old or that highlighted players that LSU may not have had any interest in. The story also points out that many of the videos were of poor quality. The headline to the story read, "Video Bought By LSU is Old, Low Quality."
Well, the national media took this story and ran with it. In fact, ESPN's Pat Forde took the story and sent it out via Twitter with the following note: "Willie Lyles sold video to LSU with no recruiting value." Well, that's not really what Naqi's story says, but that did not seem to matter to Forde. It's shameful that Forde will get away with twisting words like that, but he will. Bloggers and local media outlets took Forde's message and blasted it all over the place. Within an hour, it was a given that LSU paid Lyles and received nothing worthwhile in return. I'd venture to say that less than half of the people that re-tweeted Forde's headline did so prior to even reading the story....if they read it at all. And I'd say that 10% of them even care about any of the facts surrounding the story. After all, there is nothing like a controversy to generate web traffic.
I figured I'd at least offer some counter points that are based on facts and some pretty reasonable assumptions:
1) As mentioned, LSU purchased the "JUCO per state" package for Kansas and California. It just so happened that LSU offered and ultimately signed 4-star quarterback prospect Zach Mettenberger from Butler Community College in Kansas. LSU also briefly recruited a receiver from Mettenberger's team, Marcus Kennard, who ultimately signed with Texas Tech. Included in what LSU received, and what they were really after, was video from Butler that showed Mettenberger and Kennard. As for California, LSU heavily recruited a wide receiver from East Los Angeles College named Anthony Denham who ultimately signed with Utah. So when LSU pays for and receives video of prospects they actively recruited and in one case, signed, how does that constitute "no recruiting value?". The answer is that Forde was wrong to say that because he either did not understand the situation or did not want to.
2) In purchasing the "JUCO per state" packages from Complete Scouting, LSU purchased all material that Lyles had from the states of Kansas and California. Since LSU was after film of the aforementioned players, is it really incriminating that they are not familar with all of the material that Lyles sent? It's what they paid for! This is not hard.
3) Lastly, the assertion that the junior college film was of "low quality" is not really newsworthy. I have been following recruiting for quite some time, and I have yet to see any JUCO film that is worth a damn. It's not like these junior colleges have HD cameras set up from several vantage points on the field. It is what it is. To act as if the poor film quality is a revelation and to include in the headline is a stretch to say the least.
I'm not naive. I realize that Will Lyles and Complete Scouting are not the typical scouting service. But the $6,000 payment from LSU to Lyles is not going to get them into any trouble. ESPN went looking for a story. And when they did not find anything, they wrote the story anyway.
On Wednesday evening, ESPN's Kelly Naqi released a story that detailed the videos and materials that LSU received for that payment. The story claims that many of the videos that LSU received were old or that highlighted players that LSU may not have had any interest in. The story also points out that many of the videos were of poor quality. The headline to the story read, "Video Bought By LSU is Old, Low Quality."
Well, the national media took this story and ran with it. In fact, ESPN's Pat Forde took the story and sent it out via Twitter with the following note: "Willie Lyles sold video to LSU with no recruiting value." Well, that's not really what Naqi's story says, but that did not seem to matter to Forde. It's shameful that Forde will get away with twisting words like that, but he will. Bloggers and local media outlets took Forde's message and blasted it all over the place. Within an hour, it was a given that LSU paid Lyles and received nothing worthwhile in return. I'd venture to say that less than half of the people that re-tweeted Forde's headline did so prior to even reading the story....if they read it at all. And I'd say that 10% of them even care about any of the facts surrounding the story. After all, there is nothing like a controversy to generate web traffic.
I figured I'd at least offer some counter points that are based on facts and some pretty reasonable assumptions:
1) As mentioned, LSU purchased the "JUCO per state" package for Kansas and California. It just so happened that LSU offered and ultimately signed 4-star quarterback prospect Zach Mettenberger from Butler Community College in Kansas. LSU also briefly recruited a receiver from Mettenberger's team, Marcus Kennard, who ultimately signed with Texas Tech. Included in what LSU received, and what they were really after, was video from Butler that showed Mettenberger and Kennard. As for California, LSU heavily recruited a wide receiver from East Los Angeles College named Anthony Denham who ultimately signed with Utah. So when LSU pays for and receives video of prospects they actively recruited and in one case, signed, how does that constitute "no recruiting value?". The answer is that Forde was wrong to say that because he either did not understand the situation or did not want to.
2) In purchasing the "JUCO per state" packages from Complete Scouting, LSU purchased all material that Lyles had from the states of Kansas and California. Since LSU was after film of the aforementioned players, is it really incriminating that they are not familar with all of the material that Lyles sent? It's what they paid for! This is not hard.
3) Lastly, the assertion that the junior college film was of "low quality" is not really newsworthy. I have been following recruiting for quite some time, and I have yet to see any JUCO film that is worth a damn. It's not like these junior colleges have HD cameras set up from several vantage points on the field. It is what it is. To act as if the poor film quality is a revelation and to include in the headline is a stretch to say the least.
I'm not naive. I realize that Will Lyles and Complete Scouting are not the typical scouting service. But the $6,000 payment from LSU to Lyles is not going to get them into any trouble. ESPN went looking for a story. And when they did not find anything, they wrote the story anyway.
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