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Message
re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:39 pm to OBUDan
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:39 pm to OBUDan
Yeah, but in 2009 it was pretty obvious that the mediocrity of the passing game hurt the running game much more than the mediocrity of the running game hurt the passing game. Just saying.
1
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:45 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
First, you've conveniently taken out all statistics relating to total offensive production.
I'm assuming these are already well known.
quote:
Second, you cite defensive statistics without considering SOS.
What relevance does a subjective S.O.S. ranking have to do with statistical on field performance?
quote:
Third, you make no mention of the injuries to LSU's 3 most hyped players for 2007: Will Arnold, Early Doucet, and Flynn himself.
Okay..
quote:
Fourth, you act as if Flynn was just some lucky beneficiary of a better running game
I can give you that a QB has the responsibility of checking into better plays and yatta yatta...but the fact is, no QB is going to turn a 3,000 yd. rushing attack into a 1,500 yard rushing attack.
The failure of the run game had a lot more to do than a "QB operating" it.
quote:
I mean, obviously, JJ in 2009 wasn't operating anywhere near Flynn's level in 2007.
Which is entirely your subjective opinion supported by zero statistical data. All of the stats provided prove that JJ "operates" as well as Flynn. And your only argument will be, "well it's obvious cause Flynn is just better at operating."
He gets more yard per attempt, he completes at a higher rate, he turns it over at a lesser rate.
The glaring difference between the 2007 offense and 2009 offense is the rushing attack, which is exactly what the analysis set out to prove.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:48 pm to OBUDan
Dan your argument was well researched and well articulated. Sometimes people just aren't ready for reason.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:49 pm to OBUDan
quote:
The failure of the run game had a lot more to do than a "QB operating" it.
Do you have any idea how different Flynn's contribution to the running game was than Jefferson's? You're comparing apples to oranges here.
If you don't buy my analysis of things, then fine. But I'm not the one trying to "prove" such things with deceptive stats. I'm just telling you what I saw on the field, and what I saw was this: with the sole exception of Charles Scott at RB, every single position on the offense looked poorly coached last year, including Jefferson at QB.
He's not anywhere near as polished as Flynn was in 2007, and I think your attempts to show otherwise with this statistical analysis of yours is silly.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:55 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
Yeah, but in 2009 it was pretty obvious that the mediocrity of the passing game hurt the running game much more than the mediocrity of the running game hurt the passing game. Just saying.
How so?
I'm not sure I see the data to support this conclusion.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:56 pm to OBUDan
quote:
I'm not sure I see the data to support this conclusion.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:00 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:What does this even mean? Did Flynn have a super secret way of handing off the ball that made the running game better?
Do you have any idea how different Flynn's contribution to the running game was than Jefferson's?
Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:00 pm to OBUDan
quote:
How so?
I'm not sure I see the data to support this conclusion.
geeeeeeeees
you dont b/c you, like all the rest of the JJ apolgogists see what you want to see.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:03 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
Do you have any idea how different Flynn's contribution to the running game was than Jefferson's? You're comparing apples to oranges here.
Sure?
Flynn had 215 rushing yards.
JJ had 171 rushing yards?
What other contribution are you talking about?
quote:
He's not anywhere near as polished as Flynn was in 2007, and I think your attempts to show otherwise with this statistical analysis of yours is silly.
But there's really no way you can prove that. Are you not just basically saying Flynn is better because he looks better?
In the context of course Flynn looked better, he played with a 3,000 yard rushing attack.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:04 pm to TIGRLEE
quote:
you dont b/c you, like all the rest of the JJ apolgogists see what you want to see.
I'm not a JJ apologist. I went into the research looking to see what the results bared out.
You have much more of an agenda than I do.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:06 pm to Doc Fenton
well, I've run my own numbers. Based on a third-order non-linear regression analysis on Big Cat Drills, I have determined, by at least 3 standard deviations, that Flynn had more intangibles than JJ.
suck it.
suck it.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:07 pm to OBUDan
quote:
You have much more of an agenda than I do.
whatever makes you feel better bro....
somebody disagrees with you and they suddenly have an agenda.
Infactuation with meaningless fricking stats....
agendas about certian players...
everybody has their problems I suppose.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:07 pm to OBUDan
quote:
But there's really no way you can prove that.
I'm not trying to prove that. Why do you keep trying to get me to "prove" my opinions? That's not what this thread is about.
I did spend a good bit of time supporting my arguments last year, but it's April, and I don't feel like doing right now. I just don't think that your statistical analysis shows much of anything. Can't we just leave it at that?
Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:07 pm to OBUDan
From what appears to be a well thought out post, I personally see a major flaw. No matter what sort of stats you can come up with, Jefferson is the most inaccurate passer I can recall at LSU since Marcus Randall. Yards per completion and percentage completion have a lot to do with the guys being thrown to and the plays being called. LSU rarely threw downfield last year, mainly because Jefferson just didn't have that ability to get the ball close enough to the receiver. That inability allowed the opponents to stack the line with 8 and 9 men. I don't care how good your line is, it is really hard for 5 or 6 to block 8 or 9. So, I disagree. If JJ was just a little bit more of a threat in passing, the run game would have been better. Also, I watched him back out the pocket into a sack several times, and people blamed those sacks on the line, which wasn't really fair. The pocket was there, but he would not stay in it.
Without major improvement in quarterback play, we are in for another season like 2009. A good team that could have been great, leaving us upset with a nine win season.
Without major improvement in quarterback play, we are in for another season like 2009. A good team that could have been great, leaving us upset with a nine win season.
This post was edited on 4/20/10 at 9:08 pm
Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:07 pm to Spirit of Dunson
quote:
Spirit of Dunson
Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:08 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
I'm not trying to prove that. Why do you keep trying to get me to "prove" my opinions? That's not what this thread is about.
I did spend a good bit of time supporting my arguments last year, but it's April, and I don't feel like doing right now. I just don't think that your statistical analysis shows much of anything. Can't we just leave it at that?
I guess I was operating under the assumption that if you were going to tell me I'm wrong you'd have some way of proving it other than just saying, "Welp, that's wrong."
Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:09 pm to matt314
quote:
Tearing down Flynn's accomplishments to build up JJ is a curious exercise
He posted both players stats
quote:
not by some silly statistical analysis.
stats are only silly when you disagree with them.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:10 pm to Spirit of Dunson
to intangibles!!!Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:12 pm to TIGRLEE
quote:.
you dont b/c you, like all the rest of the JJ apolgogists see what you want to see.
And you, like all the rest of the JJ bashers, see what you want to see.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 9:12 pm to TIGRLEE
quote:
omebody disagrees with you and they suddenly have an agenda.
You accused me of being a "JJ Apologist," when you do nothing but rip JJ.
I've spent sometime arguing JJ's strengths but not to the extent of defying logic.
JJ has many many weaknesses, but those are rehashed enough.
quote:
Infactuation
I guess you mean infatuation.
quote:
agendas about certian players...
I guess you mean "certain" players. Like I said, I don't have an agenda. I'm not gonna sit around and say, "It's not JJ's fault he got sacked against Ole Miss."
Honestly the point of the thread isn't even really JJ. It's the pathetic rushing attack from last season.
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