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Posted on 12/1/08 at 2:57 am to GeauxBob
quote:
The fact remains Gundy has made the same claims against Miles, and the offensive struggles have been ridiculous. I can fathom the INTs and such, but the whole offensive identity changes randomly in games and nothing matches Crowton's style ANYWHERE!
Who cares what Mike "I'm a man...I'm 40" Gundy might say or think? Your argument is 4 years stale, unsubstantiated. Link it up or better - just stop posting crap.
Apparently do not understand the difference between the LSU Football Head Football Coach & his assistants. Gary Crowton did not have the capacity to be a Head Coach at BYU. He is an Assistant - Coordinator if you prefer. Miles & Crowton worked well together in 2007. And averaged more than 30 points per game in 2008. Regardless, Crowton was hired to do what Miles wants done on Offense.
quote:
The fact remains that Miles offensive strategies didn't work. I am not using the Arky game as my prime example. I am talking about the past 4 years as a whole.
bullshite. Miles had the most successful first 3 years of ANY LSU Football coach. Year 4 LSU is 7-5 so far. Miles 2007 team holds the record for the most points ever produced by an LSU Football team & the National Championship. 1 SEC Championship & 2 SEC West Titles. His an Offenses have produced 2 different 1,000 yard Running Backs in back to back seasons. Ask when that last happened at LSU.
Changes have to be made this year. What they are, who they are are not up to you GeauxBob. We can all be thankful for that.
This post was edited on 12/1/08 at 3:01 am
Posted on 12/1/08 at 6:33 am to ATR
JImbo Fisher was OK, just not as great as some of you make him out to be.
His results are highly skewed by the talent that existed.
The main 2 issues I hated:
His screens,
to a man a few yards behind the line of S and STANDING STILL. A player that runs, let's say 4.6 can catch a man that runs 4.4 if the 4.4 is standing still, he must first get 2 or 3 steps before his speed will really aid him.
And he loved his screens.
His game plan,
if it worked, he looked like a genius...
if it did not work, he would continue to force it until we ran out of time.
His results are highly skewed by the talent that existed.
The main 2 issues I hated:
His screens,
to a man a few yards behind the line of S and STANDING STILL. A player that runs, let's say 4.6 can catch a man that runs 4.4 if the 4.4 is standing still, he must first get 2 or 3 steps before his speed will really aid him.
And he loved his screens.
His game plan,
if it worked, he looked like a genius...
if it did not work, he would continue to force it until we ran out of time.
Posted on 12/1/08 at 6:37 am to GeauxBob
quote:
Is this season's offensive struggles a combination of QB issues and Miles' egotistical imposing of his system into the offense?
It's 99% QB issues.
After 6 Int for TDs, did Miles overreact , and take some plays off the charts? Very possible. But, a reasonable person would have a hard time finding fault with that given the troubles we had all year at QB.
Posted on 12/1/08 at 7:00 am to moneyg
quote:
It's 99% QB issues.
After 6 Int for TDs, did Miles overreact , and take some plays off the charts? Very possible. But, a reasonable person would have a hard time finding fault with that given the troubles we had all year at QB.
most likely senerio. Combination of JL's pics and JJ being a freshmen in his first game, has led to a dumbing down of the offense. This was likely implemented by miles, but also likely gave us the best chance to win. Probably not a bad thing to do given the circumstances, we just happen to loose.
Posted on 12/3/08 at 10:46 am to ATR
about the new qbs. when you can prove you can move the ball and score why go back to being conservative. they came back in the auby ,troy and in the ark games. we started playing conservative and got our arse handed to us .the play calling changed with both qbs in different games and we came back.the ark was the last game i can recall and i believe we were getting beat 14-3 we change the play calling with a new qb and scored on the next 5 times we touched the ball. once we got the lead we went back to the conservative calls again and eventually lost. it possilbe this could have happened in the troy game if we could have caught up sooner but we didnt have time to go back conservative. by the way on the conservative calls that was just my observation and its possible that i'm wrong. you make your on judgement.in the end i am an lsu fan all the way . sorry i did'nt respond sooner but i.ve been out.
Posted on 12/3/08 at 11:00 am to GeauxBob
Though I've heard that Miles interjected a bit into the AU 06 gameplan, and that he and Jimbo didn't get along, I don't think he's the problem with the offense this year. It really just comes down to execution at the QB spot. I have had a problem with some of Crowton's calls, but you're not gonna be perfect every time out. Find me a perfect OC. Hell, the Chow/ Neuheisel combo got shut out this year.
Back to 06 for a sec, did anyone else ever find it odd that the first time we really saw 5 wide that year was in the Sugar Bowl? It wasn't just on one play either, we went 5 wide a few times. Why were we saving that?
Back to 06 for a sec, did anyone else ever find it odd that the first time we really saw 5 wide that year was in the Sugar Bowl? It wasn't just on one play either, we went 5 wide a few times. Why were we saving that?
Posted on 12/3/08 at 11:35 am to GeauxBob
Make know mistake about it...
Jimbo knows who to develop young QBs. He took two guys with strong arms and not much else (as far as refinement/skills) and turned them into stat machines. He also took two guys with lesser talent and turned them into National Champions.
Jimbo knew how to ease a young QB into a season and into a game by not necessarily throwing on the first play of the game every time.
Jimbo knew the value of ball control and field position.
It is my firm belief that Jimbo was hamstrung during his entire tenure here. I believe Saban asked Jimbo to be very vanilla - keep my defense off the field and with favorable field position; if you put up 17 we should win.
I believe that once Miles came around Jimbo was even further hamstrung and this just happens to coincide with the growing perception that Jimbo was unimaginative. The perception of Jimbo reall started to sour at the exact time Miles arrived. Add that to reports that Jimbo was screaming directives from the coaches box that were not followed in his last season and one must at least consider the fact my belief may hold water.
Jimbo knows who to develop young QBs. He took two guys with strong arms and not much else (as far as refinement/skills) and turned them into stat machines. He also took two guys with lesser talent and turned them into National Champions.
Jimbo knew how to ease a young QB into a season and into a game by not necessarily throwing on the first play of the game every time.
Jimbo knew the value of ball control and field position.
It is my firm belief that Jimbo was hamstrung during his entire tenure here. I believe Saban asked Jimbo to be very vanilla - keep my defense off the field and with favorable field position; if you put up 17 we should win.
I believe that once Miles came around Jimbo was even further hamstrung and this just happens to coincide with the growing perception that Jimbo was unimaginative. The perception of Jimbo reall started to sour at the exact time Miles arrived. Add that to reports that Jimbo was screaming directives from the coaches box that were not followed in his last season and one must at least consider the fact my belief may hold water.
Posted on 12/3/08 at 12:38 pm to ATR
Those of you talking about Crowton's "style" obviously have no clue what you are talking about. He has adapted to his players his whole career. He ran a wide open passing attack with LT and the Bears, ran the spread at BYU, and ran a balanced spread option attack at Oregon. If running is considered conservative, then you might want to check Oregon's rushing stats from 2006. The only difference since he came here, is that he ran the spread with a healthy Flynn and RP out of the I and the Pistol. With our line last year and a good fullback, why wouldn't you. Chalk this year up to the qb situation. With JJ and RS next year, you will see an attack that is a mirror image of 2007. Book it.
Posted on 12/3/08 at 12:41 pm to misey94
quote:
if it did not work, he would continue to force it until we ran out of time.
Great point. I forgot what halftime adjustments to the offense looked like until last year. I will give Jimbo one thing, he was a great qb coach.
Posted on 12/3/08 at 12:53 pm to GeauxBob
quote:Tell, exactly what "style" fits the offenses Crowton has run every year at every stop he's been at? Crowton has run a wide variety of schemes and playcalling styles over the years at various stops and with various personnel. One of his biggest assets as an OC is that he is not necessarily tied to one "style" and can and has changed the identity of his offense to suit his personnel.
I can fathom the INTs and such, but the whole offensive identity changes randomly in games and nothing matches Crowton's style ANYWHERE!
This year we had QB issues from the start, then lost our starter in the 3rd game, had some impressively bad luck with our 3rd QB (Lee), and then ended up with him injured so that we finished out the season with our 4th QB. And with all of that, plus a defense that was 9th in the SEC in total defense, 11th in scoring defense, and dead last in passing defense, we still managed to score over 30 points a game. And you want to take the credit for that away from Crowton and give it to Miles because you don't recognize Crowton's "style"?
As the season progressed (and Lee, it seemed, didn't), our offense went through fluctuations and variations. Whoever was in control of our offense seemed to clearly be trying to find something that worked with a true freshman QB or a RS freshman QB who kept throwing pick 6s. With the struggles we had this season, the offensive coaching did a heck of a job producing points. And they did it in exactly the style I would expect from Crowton.
Posted on 12/3/08 at 1:02 pm to King Joey
I saw a game on TV where they showed Jimbo in the pressbox. Jimbo called the play then started screaming and throwing things in the box. I heard the rumor that Miles was overiding him. Also heard the same happened to Pelini in 04 unitl after the Tennessee game. Miles told Pelini after that to take over and do his thing. Like everything else here that just heresy.
Posted on 12/3/08 at 1:02 pm to King Joey
Jimbo wasn't forced to do shite, he really is just a boring offensive coach. Look at the play calling this year at Fl State:
Rushes 445
Passes 350 16 TD's 16 INT's
With incoming talent like Fla State has this is just pitiful.
Rushes 445
Passes 350 16 TD's 16 INT's
With incoming talent like Fla State has this is just pitiful.
Posted on 12/3/08 at 1:15 pm to ironsides
That's actually smart football, passing is not his current QBs' strong suit (nor the OL's). In typical Jimbo fashion, he's taking a couple years to get Ponder up to speed.
Posted on 12/3/08 at 1:25 pm to GeauxBob
Here's just some straight up facts. We already know Crowton's offense last year was the best we've ever had. This year with MAJOR QB issues we put up 30.33 points per game (not including bowl yet obviously). Here were Fisher's offenses...
2006 = 33.69 points per game
2005 = 29.46 points per game
2004 = 28.67 points per game
2003 = 33.93 points per game
2002 = 24.85 points per game
2001 = 30.92 points per game
2000 = 26.55 points per game
Highlighted are 4 of his 7 offenses that averaged less per game than we have this year. Also, the least we've ever scored under Crowton is 13. We scored less than 13 under Fisher 10 times.
I don't have much doubt our offense would of been worse under Fisher this year.
2006 = 33.69 points per game
2005 = 29.46 points per game
2004 = 28.67 points per game
2003 = 33.93 points per game
2002 = 24.85 points per game
2001 = 30.92 points per game
2000 = 26.55 points per game
Highlighted are 4 of his 7 offenses that averaged less per game than we have this year. Also, the least we've ever scored under Crowton is 13. We scored less than 13 under Fisher 10 times.
I don't have much doubt our offense would of been worse under Fisher this year.
Posted on 12/3/08 at 1:29 pm to Cajunboy19
quote:
Also heard the same happened to Pelini in 04 unitl after the Tennessee game
Posted on 12/3/08 at 1:36 pm to moneyg
Did I not hear Miles quote from yesterday to say that he was NOT involved with play calling, and there does NOT exist a rift b/w he and Crowton?
I was actually surprised to hear this, and I don't think Miles would say that unless he actually had not interfered with the offense.
I was actually surprised to hear this, and I don't think Miles would say that unless he actually had not interfered with the offense.
Posted on 12/3/08 at 1:38 pm to rbdallas
quote:I thought Jimbo was great, but if there ever was a knock on him, that would be it. He seemed way too stubborn about changing his gameplan on the few occassions where it didn't work.
if it did not work, he would continue to force it until we ran out of time.
Posted on 12/3/08 at 1:44 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
2006 = 33.69 points per game
2005 = 29.46 points per game
2004 = 28.67 points per game
2003 = 33.93 points per game
2002 = 24.85 points per game
2001 = 30.92 points per game
2000 = 26.55 points per game
Let's remember, in regard to 2006, few offensive coordinators in the history of CF have had the No. 1 pick at QB, and TWO No.1 picks at WR.
Fisher = 3 points at Auburn.
No Nick Saban would not have won any more NCs with all the talent he had amassed. Because he still had Jimbo Fisher on his team.
Posted on 12/3/08 at 1:47 pm to ironsides
quote:
Look at the play calling this year at Fl State:
Rushes 445
Passes 350 16 TD's 16 INT's
With incoming talent like Fla State has this is just pitiful.
Have you seen an FSU game this year?
Their QB's are anything but superior talent...not to mention most of the team was suspended for most of the year. I'd say Jimbo did a pretty good job this season.
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