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Message
Power Trim Help
Posted on 6/30/11 at 10:21 am
Posted on 6/30/11 at 10:21 am
Looking for any ideas here.
Power trim motor wouldn't turn the other day on my '06 4-stroke 90 Yamaha. Solenoid would click and power was going out to the trim motor but it would not spin. Used the manual bypass to raise/lower motor. Got home and I took the motor off of the pump (engine fully lifted up). The reservoir at this point is full, and is even a little above the fill tap. No part of the pump or lines are exposed to air. The fluid level stays right below the seam where the motor mates to the pump assy.
Inside the motor I find a lot of black dust from normal brush wear. I clean that out and brighten up the surface of the armature where the brushes contact. Motor works just fine now. Re-coupled it to the pump and the motor runs fine, but the trim doesn't move the hydraulic cylinder/engine.
At this point, I start to wonder if air did somehow get in the system, though I can't figure out how. Further, the motor will hold any position with the bypass closed and will never bleed down. It seems to me that if air were in the system, it would not hold position - you can't budge it either way with the bypass closed. I read online that these are self-bleeding systems, so I do as prescribed and cycle the motor up and down using the manual bypass (only way I can move it). However, if I crack the fill plug, I get fluid, no air. Remember the level when I removed the motor was above the fill tap. Apparently it stays there. So that procedure gets me nowhere. I took the motor back off just to verify the two are meshing together and the coupling is ok. All appears fine.
Obviously, I won't be able to vent air out of the fill tap if the fluid level is above it - I realize that. But remember, this thing has had that much fluid since it was created, so I don't want to drain any, in an attempt to bleed air that may not even exist. I guess the way around that would be to cycle it up and down as before, but bleed any air by cracking the motor from the pump.
I just really can't see how I could have gotten air in the system and I can't see how the cylinder would hold that heavy motor up, if there was air in the system.
You guys have any suggestions?
TIA
Power trim motor wouldn't turn the other day on my '06 4-stroke 90 Yamaha. Solenoid would click and power was going out to the trim motor but it would not spin. Used the manual bypass to raise/lower motor. Got home and I took the motor off of the pump (engine fully lifted up). The reservoir at this point is full, and is even a little above the fill tap. No part of the pump or lines are exposed to air. The fluid level stays right below the seam where the motor mates to the pump assy.
Inside the motor I find a lot of black dust from normal brush wear. I clean that out and brighten up the surface of the armature where the brushes contact. Motor works just fine now. Re-coupled it to the pump and the motor runs fine, but the trim doesn't move the hydraulic cylinder/engine.
At this point, I start to wonder if air did somehow get in the system, though I can't figure out how. Further, the motor will hold any position with the bypass closed and will never bleed down. It seems to me that if air were in the system, it would not hold position - you can't budge it either way with the bypass closed. I read online that these are self-bleeding systems, so I do as prescribed and cycle the motor up and down using the manual bypass (only way I can move it). However, if I crack the fill plug, I get fluid, no air. Remember the level when I removed the motor was above the fill tap. Apparently it stays there. So that procedure gets me nowhere. I took the motor back off just to verify the two are meshing together and the coupling is ok. All appears fine.
Obviously, I won't be able to vent air out of the fill tap if the fluid level is above it - I realize that. But remember, this thing has had that much fluid since it was created, so I don't want to drain any, in an attempt to bleed air that may not even exist. I guess the way around that would be to cycle it up and down as before, but bleed any air by cracking the motor from the pump.
I just really can't see how I could have gotten air in the system and I can't see how the cylinder would hold that heavy motor up, if there was air in the system.
You guys have any suggestions?
TIA
5
Posted on 6/30/11 at 10:50 am to Tiger-Striped-Bass
I will not be of much immediate help, but there was a thread on trim issues not long ago. Here is the LINK. IDK if it will be of considerable help but good luck, boats are a pain in the arse sometimes, but i would never give them up!
Posted on 6/30/11 at 10:55 am to littlePNdaB
Thanks little, but I'm past the electrical issue in that thread.
Posted on 6/30/11 at 2:19 pm to Tiger-Striped-Bass
Is it possible it's a short in the handle of the trim switch itself? This happened to be once after hours of digging. 
Posted on 6/30/11 at 2:39 pm to Tiger-Striped-Bass
quote:
I guess the way around that would be to cycle it up and down as before, but bleed any air by cracking the motor from the pump
I don't think this is necessary. It should be self-bleeding. Could it be that the pump gear sucked up some of that crap and was possibly damaged?
Posted on 6/30/11 at 3:15 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
No short. I have the trim motor working now, but engine doesn't raise lower. Not electrical anymore. I mentioned the initial electrical problem just to list everything I did in case it was an indication of something to someone.
The brush dust that was in the electrical side of the motor did not get into the pump/hydraulic side. The shaft from the trim motor is sealed off from the pump.
I used the boat with no issues the day before with no problem. The next day the solenoid would click but the trim motor wouldn't run. I measured voltage all the way to the trim motor. That told me it was in the motor. The only thing that changed since, was that I used the manual release to raise/lower the motor and I removed the trim motor from the pump to clean out the dust.
The brush dust that was in the electrical side of the motor did not get into the pump/hydraulic side. The shaft from the trim motor is sealed off from the pump.
I used the boat with no issues the day before with no problem. The next day the solenoid would click but the trim motor wouldn't run. I measured voltage all the way to the trim motor. That told me it was in the motor. The only thing that changed since, was that I used the manual release to raise/lower the motor and I removed the trim motor from the pump to clean out the dust.
This post was edited on 6/30/11 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 6/30/11 at 3:38 pm to Tiger-Striped-Bass
Damn you have a mystery on your hands. The only thing I can think of is the pump gear being faulty. Something would happen if it was moving fluid.
Posted on 6/30/11 at 4:03 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Well downshift, I am puzzled too.
I mean, if I close the bypass, I cannot budge the motor. Doesn't that imply that there is no air?
If I open the bypass, I can move it either way. Doesn't that imply that the fluid is transferring, going somewhere?
Yet when I run the trim motor, it doesn't actuate anything. It just runs.
I've really been trying to hit on someone who knows about this stuff before going deeper and causing myself extra work.
I mean, if I close the bypass, I cannot budge the motor. Doesn't that imply that there is no air?
If I open the bypass, I can move it either way. Doesn't that imply that the fluid is transferring, going somewhere?
Yet when I run the trim motor, it doesn't actuate anything. It just runs.
I've really been trying to hit on someone who knows about this stuff before going deeper and causing myself extra work.
Posted on 6/30/11 at 4:06 pm to Tiger-Striped-Bass
The bypass valve may be the problem. The bypass valve bypasses the pump impeller. It may not be opening properly to allow flow to the pump. I highly doubt there is air in the system because you have moved the motor up an down, which moves the fluid around and it's a self-bleeding system. Try fooling with the bypass valve a little bit.
Posted on 6/30/11 at 6:17 pm to Tiger-Striped-Bass
I know you said you were passed the electrical issue but how did you determine that? By a voltage measurement when you press the switch?
Also, did I read it correctly, it will not go up or down?
The reason I ask is, sometimes the contacts on the relays burn out but still make contact. There is just not enough contact for the amount of current needed to operate the pump. Thus, you will read 12 volts at the pump but there is not enough current to operate it.
Just a thought.
Also, did I read it correctly, it will not go up or down?
The reason I ask is, sometimes the contacts on the relays burn out but still make contact. There is just not enough contact for the amount of current needed to operate the pump. Thus, you will read 12 volts at the pump but there is not enough current to operate it.
Just a thought.
Posted on 6/30/11 at 10:07 pm to LanierSpots
bump for no response from the OP
Posted on 6/30/11 at 11:14 pm to Tiger-Striped-Bass
Tiger-Striped-Bass
You fooled the hell out of me with the thread title.
You fooled the hell out of me with the thread title.
Posted on 7/4/11 at 7:51 am to Kcrad
Sorry guys, I've been out.
Lanier - pump runs, not an electrical problem.
Downshift - good thinking about the bypass. I tried adjusting little by little from closed to wide open and didn't get it. Still a possibility that it is faulty, but I'll take it to somebody before I go that far in replacing it.
I think I'm at the end of my rope. I guess its time to bring it in.
Thanks for your help.
Lanier - pump runs, not an electrical problem.
Downshift - good thinking about the bypass. I tried adjusting little by little from closed to wide open and didn't get it. Still a possibility that it is faulty, but I'll take it to somebody before I go that far in replacing it.
I think I'm at the end of my rope. I guess its time to bring it in.
Thanks for your help.
This post was edited on 7/4/11 at 9:28 am
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