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Honest question about hunting from 30,000 feet level

Posted on 7/4/16 at 7:44 pm
Posted by athenslife101
Member since Feb 2013
18534 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 7:44 pm
Ill just preface this with saying I'm not a hunter but understand and respect the important place it occupies in conservation.

I was just listening to a story on ram hunting and they were talking about how humans are the only creatures on the planet that hunt the largest and strongest of a species.

This is taking out prime genetics from the species, leaving some species smaller, weaker, and less likely to be productive for necessary survival of a species.

I'm just curious what hunters take is on this thought. Thanks.
Posted by QuietTiger
New Orleans
Member since Dec 2003
26256 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 7:48 pm to
30,000 feet???? No way. Everest is 29K. Link?
Posted by QuietTiger
New Orleans
Member since Dec 2003
26256 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 7:49 pm to
Guessing w/o a link you are relating to plane shooting I would guess?
Posted by Howard Juneau
Cocodrie, LA
Member since Nov 2007
2218 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 7:50 pm to
Neah.
Posted by SportTiger1
Stonewall, LA
Member since Feb 2007
28497 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 7:52 pm to
It really depends on genetics and reproduction volume.

With deer hunting, I'm of the opinionthatthe better bucks with better genetics are the ones who get first dibs on does. As long as they reproduce enough, and deer definitely do...there is no problem.

No idea about goats. I assume wildlife and fisheries have to be much more particular in rules and regs.
Posted by 007mag
Death Valley, Sec. 408
Member since Dec 2011
3873 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 8:00 pm to
I'm not certain but I gather that he's saying "being on the outside looking in". In the sense that he's a non-hunter asking a hunter's opinion on what many say is the defect in hunting for conservation.
Posted by athenslife101
Member since Feb 2013
18534 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 8:01 pm to


You know 30,000 feet level means big picture, right?

Ground level means close up, specific.

10,000 feet means medium scope.

And 30,000 feet means big picture.

This post was edited on 7/4/16 at 8:04 pm
Posted by QuietTiger
New Orleans
Member since Dec 2003
26256 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 8:05 pm to
quote:

007mag

No, I did not. Anyone else miss that from the post?
Apologies.
Posted by athenslife101
Member since Feb 2013
18534 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 8:09 pm to
That's the general idea of what I am getting at (I wasn't approaching it from a conservation level but that makes sense).

Posted by Hammertime
Will trade dowsing rod for titties
Member since Jan 2012
43030 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 8:16 pm to
I have never heard any of those being used
Posted by athenslife101
Member since Feb 2013
18534 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 8:24 pm to
I've heard it a few times from a few different places but it's my bad. I just thought if people didn't get it, they're read the OP and it'd click. But again, my bad.

Back to topic: the story I was listening to was talking about a specific ram population that lived on a couple of mountains that had seen immediate genetic issues from hunting.
Posted by CamdenTiger
Member since Aug 2009
62354 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 8:33 pm to
Hunter are all different. While I like the challenge of killing mature animals with big horns, I have relatives that could care less, and shoot the first animal they see and go home and eat it...As far as killing out the strong genetics, I see your point, but take deer for instance, most of the breeding is done by 1.5-2.5 year old deer(deer i'm not hunting), while you more mature, dominant, older deer do much less...Its also why they are harder to kill, as they aren't as foolish...
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20361 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 8:48 pm to
Yep exactly as said above. Studies consistently show that animals breed more their first couple of years of being capable and it slowly declines over time. So it's not like shooting the big 6 year old deer is going to prevent genes from passing on when in all likelihood most of its breeding is behind him anyway. Deer for example are lucky to live to be 5, and that's the ideal age of 'harvesting'. So by shooting a mature deer like that by percentage it's on it's last leg anyway even though they seldom could live to be 10 or older. As they get older they get smarter and lazier so they aren't chasing tail non stop like when they are younger.
Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
45786 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 8:54 pm to
Well, there are more deer in the US today, than at any point in the history of the US.
Posted by beulahland
Little D'arbonne
Member since Jan 2013
3560 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 8:58 pm to
What Wick said.
Due to hunting.
Posted by Hammertime
Will trade dowsing rod for titties
Member since Jan 2012
43030 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 9:04 pm to
I don't care about rack size, but i do follow the philosophy of managing a healthy herd.

That being said....people have always hunted. Adapt or perish
Posted by jeffereycole
Gallup, New Mexico
Member since May 2012
142 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 9:07 pm to
The reality is hunters wish they could kill the largest but most often they settle for what they can find and thats why its management and in the best interest of the species
Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
45786 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 9:11 pm to
Pittman–Robertson Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Act

quote:

The Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Act of 1937, most often referred to as the Pittman–Robertson Act for its sponsors, Nevada Senator Key Pittman and Virginia Congressman Absalom Willis Robertson, was signed by Franklin D. Roosevelt on September 2, 1937 and became effective on July 1 of the following year.[1][2][3][4] It has been amended many times with several of the major ones taking place during the 1970s[1][2][3][5] and the most recent taking place in 2000.[6]


quote:

The Pittman–Robertson Act took over a pre-existing 11% excise tax on firearms and ammunition.[7][8] Instead of going into the U.S. Treasury as it had done in the past, the money is kept separate and is given to the Secretary of the Interior to distribute to the States.[4][8][9] The Secretary determines how much to give to each state based on a formula that takes into account both the area of the state and its number of licensed hunters.[2][3][6][9][10]


These States must fulfill certain requirements to use the money apportioned to them. None of the money from their hunting license sales may be used by anyone other than the State’s fish and game department.[3][6][8] Plans for what to do with the money must be submitted to and approved by the Secretary of the Interior.[6] Acceptable options include research, surveys, management of wildlife and/or habitat and acquisition or lease of land, among other things.[1][6][10] Once a plan has been approved, the state must pay the full cost and is later reimbursed for up to 75% of that cost through P–R funds.[1][3][10] The 25% of the cost that the State must pay generally comes from its hunting license sales.[1] If, for whatever reason, any of the federal money does not get spent, after two years that money is then reallocated to the Migratory Bird Conservation Act.[6][9]


quote:

This piece of legislation has provided states with funding for research and projects that would have been unaffordable otherwise.[10] According to a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service webpage that was updated in January 2010, over two billion dollars of federal aid has been generated through this program, which in turn means that states have kept up their 25% contributions with over 500 million dollars.[1] The habitat acquisition and improvement made possible by this money has allowed some species with large ranges such as American black bears, elk, cougars, and others, to expand those ranges beyond where they were found prior to the implementation of the act.[1] Important game populations such as white-tailed deer and several Galliformes have also had a chance to recover and expand their populations. Critics claim that state Fish and Wildlife agencies use funds primarily to create new hunting opportunities and that hunters in general feel the tax they pay on fire arms should be used to facilitate hunting. The result is that little money is spend directly on initiatives that don't result in providing increased hunting opportunities. [1][8] Wil
Posted by No Colors
Sandbar
Member since Sep 2010
10257 posts
Posted on 7/4/16 at 11:14 pm to
quote:

Well, there are more deer in the US today, than at any point in the history of the US.


Sure. But that's not his point.

Take the idea with humans. For thousands of generations, only the smartest and most aggressive humans were able to reproduce. And we thrived.

But now it's the opposite. The more highly educated you are, and the wealthier you are, the fewer kids you're likely to have.

And the idiots who have been rejected by society -- the ones who should have been culled -- are encouraged to do the most breeding.

How can we possibly think this won't have consequences?

In just the last 30 years, the world added 1.6 billion people to the work force. Most we from educated populations in Asia and Europe. And the world economy has done well.

In the next 30 years, we are only going to add about 800 million workers to the work force. But many of the 1.6 billion from this generation will still be alive.

But the 800 million we're adding are mostly from India and Africa, and over half will be illiterate.

Look at that math and tell me we're not fricked?
Posted by The Last Coco
On the water
Member since Mar 2009
6838 posts
Posted on 7/5/16 at 7:46 am to
quote:

Sure. But that's not his point.


Agreed.
quote:

Take the idea with humans. For thousands of generations, only the smartest and most aggressive humans were able to reproduce. And we thrived.

But now it's the opposite. The more highly educated you are, and the wealthier you are, the fewer kids you're likely to have.

And the idiots who have been rejected by society -- the ones who should have been culled -- are encouraged to do the most breeding.

How can we possibly think this won't have consequences?

In just the last 30 years, the world added 1.6 billion people to the work force. Most we from educated populations in Asia and Europe. And the world economy has done well.

In the next 30 years, we are only going to add about 800 million workers to the work force. But many of the 1.6 billion from this generation will still be alive.

But the 800 million we're adding are mostly from India and Africa, and over half will be illiterate.

Look at that math and tell me we're not fricked?


Woah. Take that to the Poli board. And go drink a beer or something. Sounds like you've got some anger issues

To the OP: while selectively harvesting the largest animals of a small population could be cause for concern, that's in large part why limits on harvesting animals are in place. And in the case of most hunted game, only the males are selectively harvested and the females carry the same genes. I don't think it's really an issue until you start talking about unsustainable populations.
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