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1
Posted on 10/13/12 at 11:25 am to Mercy Percy
Back to your OP, I think you'd be better served with a compact/full size semi auto for shooting with your sons and home defense. I'd take a look at either a Glock 19 or Smith and Wesson M&P. Both are 9mm, fairly light, low recoil, more capacity, and better overall for novice/new shooters. The snappy recoil of a short-barrel revolver might turn off a new or inexperienced shooter. Just my thoughts.
This post was edited on 10/13/12 at 11:26 am
Posted on 10/13/12 at 11:30 am to BamaFan89
quote:
Smith and Wesson M&P
I agree with Bama fan here.
The best home defense weapon period is a shotgun. But if you choose to use a handgun, get a full sized semi auto or revolver. If you want to stick with a revolver for its simplicity, get a S&W 686 or Ruger GP100.
Posted on 10/13/12 at 12:39 pm to Ole Geauxt
.41 mag red hawk....
.357 mag red hawk
undisclosed 9mm as last resort.
but first in line....
is 12 gauge....
.357 mag red hawk
undisclosed 9mm as last resort.
but first in line....
is 12 gauge....
Posted on 10/13/12 at 2:16 pm to Anton7
quote:
Since this would be for the GF's use as well, then I'd say a .38 is a pretty good choice.
quote:
I would agree with this.
Also, take a look at the S&W Air Weight. A true point and shoot gun. You can find a 642 with rubber grips and a laser for under $500.
I think CGM's point was to look at heavier, larger revolvers since it won't be used for CCW. The airweights don't fit he (described) bill -- and are very unpleasant to shhot.
Posted on 10/13/12 at 2:29 pm to dawg23
quote:My response was to this (.38 for GF) and this only, which is why I quoted that statement.
Since this would be for the GF's use as well, then I'd say a .38 is a pretty good choice.
OP was looking at a small gun originally and I'm pretty sure he appreciates various opinions.
Posted on 10/13/12 at 4:58 pm to Mercy Percy
A bodyguard is a compromise to allow it to be concealed. No need to be concealed for home protection, so get a full-size .38 or medium frame .357 that you can load with 38's.
Small smith revolvers are difficult to shoot well because the double-action trigger pull is tough & choppy. Combining that with the short barrel means it will be really really hard to hit anything even at ridiculously close range.
Small smith revolvers are difficult to shoot well because the double-action trigger pull is tough & choppy. Combining that with the short barrel means it will be really really hard to hit anything even at ridiculously close range.
Posted on 10/13/12 at 6:39 pm to Mercy Percy
quote:Shotgun brah. It'll make a bloody mess of 'em.
for home protection.
Posted on 10/14/12 at 1:03 am to Mercy Percy
Hey Mercy,
Welcome to the OB. You'll get lots of advice. Pick and choose the real world advise you get here w/ your other research and you should figure out will work best for you and the gf.
The "rate limiting step" here is youe gf using the gun. Given the fact that she's going to be using the gun, I'd suggest a full size, non lightweight revolver in 38 Spec. A lot of other guns have already been mentioned, but I don't think most really apply.
I like lightweight snubbies for concealed carry (and carry one myself), but don't recommend them for a home defense gun. A lightweight snubnose will have one less round,be more difficult to shoot and have more recoil compared to a full size, steel revolver.
I don't recommend a semi-auto, either pocket sized or full sized. Your gf may be the exception, but lots of women find it difficult to rack the slide of a semi-auto. If you take her shooting and she handles a 9mm semi-auto, great. Then I could recommend a double action/striker fired semi-auto like Glock or Smith&Wesson M&P, or possibly a Ruger SR9 if you don't mind an external safety.
38 Special ammo is widely available. Low pressure rounds are cheaper and easier to handle and shoot than the high pressure +P rounds. But when it comes to self-defense, the +P rounds are well respected fight stoppers.
Having said all that, the single best home defense gun is actually a shotgun, preferably a 12 gauge, but the 20 gauge is also very good. Again, in consideration of your gf, for a home defense shotgun I'd recommend an easier to handle youth model.
Here are some nice police trade in 38 Specials at a great price.
LINK
ETA: You could also get a full size 357 Magnum and load it w/ 38 Specials for home defense. If at some point your gf becomes comfortable w/ 357 Mag loads, you could then stoke it up w/ them. She probably won't like you if you start her on full power 357 Mag loads. The 357 Mag is a fine self defense caliber.
Welcome to the OB. You'll get lots of advice. Pick and choose the real world advise you get here w/ your other research and you should figure out will work best for you and the gf.
quote:
It wud be used for me shooting around w the boys and for gf on days when I am not home for her protection as well.
The "rate limiting step" here is youe gf using the gun. Given the fact that she's going to be using the gun, I'd suggest a full size, non lightweight revolver in 38 Spec. A lot of other guns have already been mentioned, but I don't think most really apply.
I like lightweight snubbies for concealed carry (and carry one myself), but don't recommend them for a home defense gun. A lightweight snubnose will have one less round,be more difficult to shoot and have more recoil compared to a full size, steel revolver.
I don't recommend a semi-auto, either pocket sized or full sized. Your gf may be the exception, but lots of women find it difficult to rack the slide of a semi-auto. If you take her shooting and she handles a 9mm semi-auto, great. Then I could recommend a double action/striker fired semi-auto like Glock or Smith&Wesson M&P, or possibly a Ruger SR9 if you don't mind an external safety.
38 Special ammo is widely available. Low pressure rounds are cheaper and easier to handle and shoot than the high pressure +P rounds. But when it comes to self-defense, the +P rounds are well respected fight stoppers.
Having said all that, the single best home defense gun is actually a shotgun, preferably a 12 gauge, but the 20 gauge is also very good. Again, in consideration of your gf, for a home defense shotgun I'd recommend an easier to handle youth model.
Here are some nice police trade in 38 Specials at a great price.
LINK
ETA: You could also get a full size 357 Magnum and load it w/ 38 Specials for home defense. If at some point your gf becomes comfortable w/ 357 Mag loads, you could then stoke it up w/ them. She probably won't like you if you start her on full power 357 Mag loads. The 357 Mag is a fine self defense caliber.
This post was edited on 10/14/12 at 1:08 am
Posted on 10/14/12 at 3:03 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
quote:
A lot of other guns have already been mentioned, but I don't think most really apply.
Refer to my post^^^^^^^
686 or GP100
Posted on 10/14/12 at 3:37 pm to Mercy Percy
Get a full size semi auto. Such as an XD, Glock or M&P.
Small guns are hard to shot
Small guns are hard to shot
Posted on 10/14/12 at 3:39 pm to bapple
quote:
686 or GP100
Two very fine full size revolvers. Somehow, I don't have either one. The gf will prolly need to start w/ 38 Spec loads.
Posted on 10/14/12 at 3:48 pm to civiltiger07
quote:
Such as an XD,
quote:
M&P
Both very good guns
Posted on 10/14/12 at 6:53 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
quote:
Having said all that, the single best home defense gun is actually a shotgun,
This.
Handguns are horrible fighting weapons. We only use them for that purpose out of necessity, since we can't carry around a 12 gauge and an ak-47 all day.
I suggest either a remington or mossberg youth pump 20 gauge. The youth models will be easy for your GF to handle, and are better suited for in home self defense anyway because they have shorter barrels and stocks.
Fill it up with 3" #3 buckshot and get familiar with it.
Posted on 10/14/12 at 7:23 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Back to your OP, I think you'd be better served with a compact/full size semi auto for shooting with your sons and home defense. I'd take a look at either a Glock 19 or Smith and Wesson M&P. Both are 9mm, fairly light, low recoil, more capacity, and better overall for novice/new shooters. The snappy recoil of a short-barrel revolver might turn off a new or inexperienced shooter. Just my thoughts.
This ^ 100%
Posted on 10/14/12 at 8:49 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
I suggest either a remington or mossberg youth pump 20 gauge. The youth models will be easy for your GF to handle, and are better suited for in home self defense anyway because they have shorter barrels and stocks.
Agreed!
I have some 12g 3" magnum 00 Buck rounds and they almost dislocate my damn shoulder. That would turn your lady off to shooting pretty fast.
Posted on 10/15/12 at 3:17 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
You can safely ignore most of the stuff in this thread. As a general rule you should steer clear of any advice from the OB concerning firearms (frickin judge rules) and home defense (desire to shoot anyone for any reason on their property with no regard to law or reason).
Having said that, as some mentioned your best bet is a revolver. Simply because a revolver will not jam. If you squeeze the trigger and no bang, just squeeze again and you're back in business. They are also inherently heavier than your plastic striker fired auto loaders recommended (GLOCK/M&P/XD). This means less felt recoil and better follow-up shots. Your wife, in a true life/death situation is going to be flipping her shite. The last thing she needs is to have to remember the 5 steps to getting her Glock ready to shoot, steps you taught her that one time you took her to the range 2 years ago. A revolver is also a good gun to learn on. No hard magazines (clips for all you OBers) to load, no fail to ejects, no fail to feeds, no slide to rack, fewer moving parts, and the list goes on and on.
A shotgun is a close second. Similar to the revolver, it is easy to operate. Unlike a revolver, if there is no bang there is the added step of pressing the slide release and then pumping to eject the bad shell. Also, one must remember to rack the slide after each shot in order to chamber a new shell. Silly for us avid hunters and dedicated 870 owners to think about. But for someone (his wife) who does not operate a shotgun on a regular basis and is currently flipping the frick out (life/death situation), having to remember to do anything but squeeze the trigger repetitively is asking too much. Then there is the spread that a shotgun shoots, this can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on the situation and the shooter.
Sorry Downshift, a handgun is a excellent fighting weapon. It is compact which makes it easy to turn tight corners, quickly reloaded with removable magazines and can be conceal with ease. I wouldn't bring it to face off over distance or against body armor, but inside my home it'll do just fine. You have to consider the situation and environment you are fighting in. A 24" bbl 30-06 with 6-18x50mm scope is a horrible fighting weapon, until you put a few hundred yards between you and your enemy. A shotgun is a horrible fighting weapon after 100 yards, probably even over 50. If your statement were true they would not be used by EVERY military/LEO/pirate/mass murder gunman.
Bottom line, it is not recommend to give someone a gun that has no idea how to use it. But if you are, a revolver is the easiest to not frick up. Take your wife/kids/gutter bitch/anyone shooting. If they like it and continue to shoot and learn the revolver then you can introduce them to other systems.
Having said that, as some mentioned your best bet is a revolver. Simply because a revolver will not jam. If you squeeze the trigger and no bang, just squeeze again and you're back in business. They are also inherently heavier than your plastic striker fired auto loaders recommended (GLOCK/M&P/XD). This means less felt recoil and better follow-up shots. Your wife, in a true life/death situation is going to be flipping her shite. The last thing she needs is to have to remember the 5 steps to getting her Glock ready to shoot, steps you taught her that one time you took her to the range 2 years ago. A revolver is also a good gun to learn on. No hard magazines (clips for all you OBers) to load, no fail to ejects, no fail to feeds, no slide to rack, fewer moving parts, and the list goes on and on.
A shotgun is a close second. Similar to the revolver, it is easy to operate. Unlike a revolver, if there is no bang there is the added step of pressing the slide release and then pumping to eject the bad shell. Also, one must remember to rack the slide after each shot in order to chamber a new shell. Silly for us avid hunters and dedicated 870 owners to think about. But for someone (his wife) who does not operate a shotgun on a regular basis and is currently flipping the frick out (life/death situation), having to remember to do anything but squeeze the trigger repetitively is asking too much. Then there is the spread that a shotgun shoots, this can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on the situation and the shooter.
Sorry Downshift, a handgun is a excellent fighting weapon. It is compact which makes it easy to turn tight corners, quickly reloaded with removable magazines and can be conceal with ease. I wouldn't bring it to face off over distance or against body armor, but inside my home it'll do just fine. You have to consider the situation and environment you are fighting in. A 24" bbl 30-06 with 6-18x50mm scope is a horrible fighting weapon, until you put a few hundred yards between you and your enemy. A shotgun is a horrible fighting weapon after 100 yards, probably even over 50. If your statement were true they would not be used by EVERY military/LEO/pirate/mass murder gunman.
Bottom line, it is not recommend to give someone a gun that has no idea how to use it. But if you are, a revolver is the easiest to not frick up. Take your wife/kids/gutter bitch/anyone shooting. If they like it and continue to shoot and learn the revolver then you can introduce them to other systems.
This post was edited on 10/15/12 at 3:21 am
Posted on 10/15/12 at 12:08 pm to Propagandalf
quote:
You can safely ignore most of the stuff in this thread.
Strong statement, bro. There are quite a few knowledgeable members here who have given solid advice. I was the one who mentioned a full sized revolver and others mentioned a 12 gauge.
quote:
Sorry Downshift, a handgun is a excellent fighting weapon.
He's saying that in terms of ballistics, the mythical "knockdown power" does not exist with handguns. You can take a 12 gauge and blow someone's organs out of their arse. The same will not happen with a 9mm, 40, or 45. Granted, a pistol is a very compact weapon, that is its only advantage.
Comparing a handgun to a shotgun, you get more rounds with a handgun, so there it has the edge. But the muzzle energy is far superior for the shotgun, and the shot pattern will be larger than any handgun round (not saying you can shoot from the hip, but the pattern will be larger nonetheless). Also, having a weapon on your shoulder is much easier to control than one in your trembling hands.
Compared to a battle rifle (not "assault" rifle), the rifle can hold more rounds, it's easier to reload, and the rounds are much more effective at causing organ damage. It isn't as compact as a pistol, and that is the one advantage it has over a battle rifle. The rifle is also shoulder mounted so it holds that advantage there.
quote:
Unlike a revolver, if there is no bang there is the added step of pressing the slide release and then pumping to eject the bad shell.
Wrong. If the firing pin drops, there is no need to push the release when you actuate the pump. It will be pushed for you. All you have to do is pump. I'm not arguing that it is less simple than a revolver, but the added step you mention is null and void.
quote:
A shotgun is a horrible fighting weapon after 100 yards, probably even over 50
When will you make a shot over 20 feet in your own home? Unless you live in a mansion, a 12 gauge is ideal. Refer back to what you are suggesting to the OP... This is a HOME defense weapon, not a weapon he's gonna take to Iraq.
Posted on 10/15/12 at 2:26 pm to bapple
quote:
Strong statement, bro. There are quite a few knowledgeable members here who have given solid advice. I was the one who mentioned a full sized revolver and others mentioned a 12 gauge.
That was a sarcastic comment. I know there are people here who are actually knowledgeable.
quote:
He's saying that in terms of ballistics, the mythical "knockdown power" does not exist with handguns. You can take a 12 gauge and blow someone's organs out of their arse. The same will not happen with a 9mm, 40, or 45. Granted, a pistol is a very compact weapon, that is its only advantage.
Comparing a handgun to a shotgun, you get more rounds with a handgun, so there it has the edge. But the muzzle energy is far superior for the shotgun, and the shot pattern will be larger than any handgun round (not saying you can shoot from the hip, but the pattern will be larger nonetheless). Also, having a weapon on your shoulder is much easier to control than one in your trembling hands.
Compared to a battle rifle (not "assault" rifle), the rifle can hold more rounds, it's easier to reload, and the rounds are much more effective at causing organ damage. It isn't as compact as a pistol, and that is the one advantage it has over a battle rifle. The rifle is also shoulder mounted so it holds that advantage there.
My argument was not that a shotgun is a bad home defense weapon. My argument was that each weapon has its niche, and within it's niche a pistol is a great fighting weapon. You are comparing apples to oranges with a pistol vs. a shotgun. You are claiming that the spread and initial energy from a shotgun is the kicker for making it a better choice than a pistol. However, what about a situation where sending an 8"-10" spread downrange is not ideal. Such as intruder holding a loved one as a body shield. Precision of the pistol wins out there. Why you even brought a battle rifle (which would be chambered in .308 or similarly way-too-fricking-large-for-home-defense- caliber I do not understand. Again apples to oranges.
quote:
Wrong. If the firing pin drops, there is no need to push the release when you actuate the pump. It will be pushed for you. All you have to do is pump. I'm not arguing that it is less simple than a revolver, but the added step you mention is null and void.
You are correct.
Sorry if I have offended you love for the smooth bore, but I was not advising against a shotgun or saying it was a poor choice for home defense. I was simply saying i would get the revolver if the OP is looking for a pistol as a home defense option. Afterall the thread was title Help!! HANDGUN Question.
Posted on 10/15/12 at 6:03 pm to Propagandalf
quote:
Precision of the pistol wins out there. Why you even brought a battle rifle (which would be chambered in .308 or similarly way-too-fricking-large-for-home-defense- caliber I do not understand. Again apples to oranges.
I guess this would be what the definition of "battle rifle" really is. The reason I say battle rifle is because "assault" rifle has negative connotations and assumes the gun is fully automatic. I was referring to an AR15 in 5.56/.223. I agree that a .308 is way too bulky for a home defense caliber.
quote:
You are claiming that the spread and initial energy from a shotgun is the kicker for making it a better choice than a pistol.
I think it's better due to higher muzzle energy, larger shot pattern, and the fact that it is on your shoulder and not extended. If we get into a conversation about a more precise shot, I can agree a handgun would be slightly better. This is why I have both next to my bed (870 and Beretta 96).
quote:
Sorry if I have offended you love for the smooth bore, but I was not advising against a shotgun or saying it was a poor choice for home defense. I was simply saying i would get the revolver if the OP is looking for a pistol as a home defense option.
None taken. A healthy argument is no cause for concern (this isn't the OT FWIW). I definitely agree a .38/.357 full sized revolver would be great for a new shooter.
This post was edited on 10/15/12 at 6:03 pm
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