- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Fully Auto Shotguns for Marines/Army
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:25 pm
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:25 pm
Just curious why the US has not adopted the AA12 or the KSG (not fully, but still stout).
Just one question.....
Would a platoon want to go to cqc with 5.56 AR's vs the Taliban with AA12s? Or vice versa.
Look at the question with all things being equal:
-optics, rails, accessories, etc
-equal training
-optimal/versital rounds
So much lead delivery.....this is a good thought provoking question, no?
Maybe not for the outdoor board, but where else would this go?
Just one question.....
Would a platoon want to go to cqc with 5.56 AR's vs the Taliban with AA12s? Or vice versa.
Look at the question with all things being equal:
-optics, rails, accessories, etc
-equal training
-optimal/versital rounds
So much lead delivery.....this is a good thought provoking question, no?
Maybe not for the outdoor board, but where else would this go?
This post was edited on 12/3/12 at 11:26 pm
5
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:26 pm to dstone12
Reliability? Bulky ammo? Range ineffective in theatre?
Ksg is a turd from what I hear.
Ksg is a turd from what I hear.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:28 pm to dstone12
quote:
Look at the question with all things being equal:
-optics, rails, accessories, etc
-equal training
-optimal/versital rounds
Can't because they aren't.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:29 pm to INFIDEL
i did not know that ksg was a turd....
You have to think that the AR's fear factor is minimal vs a 12 ga.
I know fear factor doesn't put bodies on the ground, but i have read that they don't even respect the sound of a 5.56
Either way, is there any logic for putting two of these in a platoon for more than just door breaching?
Do you think that they can work with or develop these in the next 20 years to have a proper spot in cqc?
You have to think that the AR's fear factor is minimal vs a 12 ga.
I know fear factor doesn't put bodies on the ground, but i have read that they don't even respect the sound of a 5.56
Either way, is there any logic for putting two of these in a platoon for more than just door breaching?
Do you think that they can work with or develop these in the next 20 years to have a proper spot in cqc?
This post was edited on 12/3/12 at 11:33 pm
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:31 pm to dstone12
quote:
Just curious why the US has not adopted the AA12 or the KSG (not fully, but still stout).
Those are two very different weapons. The KSG is a double-magazine-tubed, bullpup, pump 12 gauge shotgun. The AA12 is an automatic, open-breach 12 gauge shotgun.
Also, the AA12 is extremely bulky. It may be good for medium range, but for close range, the KSG would actually be a lot better. But the KSG design is not proven like the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:31 pm to dstone12
Aren't shotguns geneva convention prohibited?
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:32 pm to dstone12
quote:
I know fear factor doesn't put bodies on the ground, but i have read that they don't even respect the sound of a 5.56
Hard to respect the sound when your head splits before you hear it.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:36 pm to CaptainsWafer
quote:
Hard to respect the sound when your head splits before you hear it.
GAO reports say that there is only 1 death per 250000 rounds in Middle East conflicts, so you know what i am getting at....albeit, caliber not defined in these numbers.
Either way, thanks for the answers.
This is not as hot of a discussion like "5.56 vs 6.5 G vs 6.8 SPC" but just wondering because of the amount of lead in the air.
This post was edited on 12/3/12 at 11:39 pm
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:39 pm to dstone12
quote:
Reports say that there is only 1 death per 250000 rounds in Middle East conflicts, so you know what i am getting at.
This doesn't have to do with the lethality of the rounds. It has to do with suppressive fire. When moving positions, fellow soldiers lay cover fire so the enemy has to take cover. These rarely hit human targets and are used to distract. That's why the number is so high.
quote:
Aren't shotguns geneva convention prohibited?
It's actually the Hague conventions that made certain war laws. Here's some info...
LINK
This post was edited on 12/3/12 at 11:40 pm
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:39 pm to dstone12
That's a lot of shooting, holy heck
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:42 pm to dstone12
Even in a CQB scenario it's not practical. If you were just gonna go in, short room the fricker and spray everyone down, you might as well save yourself the trouble and just toss grenades into every room.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:43 pm to dstone12
Reliability issues w autoloaders.....at least from the navy side......
Very limited us in CQB and such.......
And whe lots of ammo is needed well...you do the math..
In some cases it is a blessing....by and large ya really don't want to get that close to the enemy....on purpose
Very limited us in CQB and such.......
And whe lots of ammo is needed well...you do the math..
In some cases it is a blessing....by and large ya really don't want to get that close to the enemy....on purpose
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:43 pm to dstone12
Well, the AA12 has an effective range of 100m. Most firefights in Afghanistan occur well beyond that.
Also, you go through a lot of ammo really quickly with an automatic shotgun. You can unload a 20 round drum in in about 8 seconds. Can be quite a waste of ammo when one well placed round from an 870 would be just as effective.
Also, you go through a lot of ammo really quickly with an automatic shotgun. You can unload a 20 round drum in in about 8 seconds. Can be quite a waste of ammo when one well placed round from an 870 would be just as effective.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:44 pm to dstone12
One of the reasons for the 5.56's short comings in Afghanistan is its range. So, your shotgun proposition would not be a good idea.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:44 pm to Grunt Actual
That's a lot of grenades to BR carrying around.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:45 pm to DrTyger
If every war could be played on play station.........
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:46 pm to CaptainsWafer
It makes about as much sense as carrying a fully auto shot gun into a house. Plus idgaf I'll mere the pvt's carry all of them 
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:48 pm to Grunt Actual
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:48 pm to Grunt Actual
It does have some practical uses in ship board stuff...
Allnthe ones I sqw back in the 80s..were moss bergs...
Allnthe ones I sqw back in the 80s..were moss bergs...
This post was edited on 12/3/12 at 11:50 pm
Posted on 12/3/12 at 11:49 pm to INFIDEL
Then the Asians would rule all.
Page 1 of 2
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News