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Message
Experts on Coastal Erosion
Posted on 4/25/17 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 4/25/17 at 4:39 pm
I read JBE's move declaring a state of emergency about the coast and decided to do some research into the Gulf Coast and it's alarming rate of erosion. Anyone here work in the field and mind exchanging emails for an informal email interview? I am focusing on the Louisiana coast. Also any articles or books you guys could recommend on channeling/damming the Mississippi and its effects on the coast would be helpful.
6
Posted on 4/25/17 at 5:29 pm to Goats and Joes
Rising Tide and Bayou Farewell are good reads. There's plenty of info out there online, also the State's CPRA has plenty of info on its webpage and in its Master Plan.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 5:40 pm to Goats and Joes
The earth is flat. Coastal erosion is bullshite
Posted on 4/25/17 at 5:45 pm to Goats and Joes
I Second Rising Tide and Bayou Farewell.
If your focus is the Mississippi, I'm not sure I would be much help, but I have a lot of sources on other factors affecting the coast and land loss. I have more or less a library stored in the Cloud...lol.
Depending on how much you want to read that is...haha. I also have a abbreviated "summary" if you will of some of it.
If your focus is the Mississippi, I'm not sure I would be much help, but I have a lot of sources on other factors affecting the coast and land loss. I have more or less a library stored in the Cloud...lol.
Depending on how much you want to read that is...haha. I also have a abbreviated "summary" if you will of some of it.
This post was edited on 4/25/17 at 5:47 pm
Posted on 4/25/17 at 5:50 pm to Goats and Joes
The best and only real solution is blowing the levees south of BC, unfortunately that will never happen. Permanent homes south of BC should be banned.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 6:07 pm to Goats and Joes
Took thousands of years and we're seeing it go in decades. There are good steps we can take, but we won't have the boot we all know as it is today
Posted on 4/25/17 at 6:21 pm to Cowboyfan89
I am considering the Mississippi and its damming/channeling as a main cause but would love your summary on other factors.
Goatsandjoes at yahoo
Goatsandjoes at yahoo
Posted on 4/25/17 at 6:30 pm to Goats and Joes
Sent you an e-mail.
Subsidence and the elimination of yearly floods are two of the biggest factors acting on southeast Louisiana. Unless those levees were to be removed, there is little that can be done in SELA. Those freshwater reintroductions will only do so much.
Not to mention the fact that the natural flow of the river wants to flow down the Atchafalaya, but the Three Rivers/Old River Control Structures prevent that...for now. The only actively building delta in Louisiana is the Atchafalaya River/Wax Lake Outlet area. You can look at Google Earth and see yearly aerial photography of that delta.
Subsidence and the elimination of yearly floods are two of the biggest factors acting on southeast Louisiana. Unless those levees were to be removed, there is little that can be done in SELA. Those freshwater reintroductions will only do so much.
Not to mention the fact that the natural flow of the river wants to flow down the Atchafalaya, but the Three Rivers/Old River Control Structures prevent that...for now. The only actively building delta in Louisiana is the Atchafalaya River/Wax Lake Outlet area. You can look at Google Earth and see yearly aerial photography of that delta.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 9:34 pm to Cowboyfan89
Sent you an email as well.
Spent a number of years in school between LSU and ULL looking at coastal erosion and geology.
Cowboy has good knowledge on the subject, we've talked in other threads about LA erosion.
Spent a number of years in school between LSU and ULL looking at coastal erosion and geology.
Cowboy has good knowledge on the subject, we've talked in other threads about LA erosion.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:35 pm to MadtownTiger
Went fishing for the first time this year the past Saturday and noticed an island had 25% missing since last summer and was appalled. Why in the hell can folks in other countries build islands for people to live on, but we can't rebuild ours for storm protection, etc? Imo they need to request trump make an exception to the jones act, we bring in a super dredger build the islands back up, plant as much sea oats as possible and let nature take its course.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:40 pm to TJG210
quote:
Imo they need to request trump make an exception to the jones act,
This is actually one of the parts of the updated Master Plan. The state wants an expedited permitting process and to not have to deal with all of the Corps of Engineers mess.
Can't say I blame them. Those knuckleheads will make a fuss about a culvert in a ditch. God forbid someone want to restore coastal wetlands which benefit thousands of people and the environment as a whole.
The funny thing is how Trump wants to loosen up regulations. I haven't heard anything about loosening the strangle hold The USACE has on wetland restoration. They are stricter with Mitigation Banking and wetland restoration in general than they are on developing wetlands.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:47 pm to Cowboyfan89
Shoot me an email if you don't mind
jimbeamtd gmail
jimbeamtd gmail
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:06 pm to Cowboyfan89
Having dealt with the Corps of Engineers on coastal Texas projects I can tell you without a doubt they'll be the biggest obstacle in anything positive happening. Them and common sense aren't in the same area code, just head shaking dumb shite.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 11:07 pm to TxWadingFool
You email me too 
Posted on 4/26/17 at 2:55 am to TxWadingFool
quote:
Having dealt with the Corps of Engineers on coastal Texas projects I can tell you without a doubt they'll be the biggest obstacle in anything positive happening. Them and common sense aren't in the same area code, just head shaking dumb shite.
But the same environmentalist types who hate the COE for interfering with their pet projects gleefully applaud the Corps for over-regulating private landowners to the point of bankruptcy. Like applying the Rivers and Harbors act to cypress logging as a means to circumvent the silvicultural exemption in the Clean Water Act.
Posted on 4/26/17 at 6:55 am to hawkster
Well that goes for more than just those environmentalist types. I had a client that hated the Corps and all of their permitting requirements. "Bunch of Beaurocrats". But they were more than happy to have us develop a mitigation bank for them to take advantage of the program and create their own source of mitigation.
The fact is, they shouldn't be impeding restoration as much as they do. The process should be streamlined for those projects that propose to enhance or restore wetland functions versus those that propose to degrade or eliminate it.
National Marine Fisheries is just as bad about impeding restoration. Oh, you want to put up rock breakwaters? No says I. That destroys fish habitat and impedes fish movement.
The fact is, they shouldn't be impeding restoration as much as they do. The process should be streamlined for those projects that propose to enhance or restore wetland functions versus those that propose to degrade or eliminate it.
National Marine Fisheries is just as bad about impeding restoration. Oh, you want to put up rock breakwaters? No says I. That destroys fish habitat and impedes fish movement.
Posted on 4/26/17 at 7:18 am to GREENHEAD22
quote:
The best and only real solution is blowing the levees south of BC, unfortunately that will never happen. Permanent homes south of BC should be banned.
I see this gets said a lot. I'm from the lower area of plaquemines parish (now live in Gretna) and it's not that simple at all.
The damage from the levees has been caused for 50+ years. Just blowing them up will do almost nothing except in a few areas (empire maybe).
The river is rocked on the banks from New Orleans down and the river doesn't overflow those rocks but maybe a month or two at the most each year. The sediment is not going to get back into the areas that need it that way. There would have to be spillways and diversions created in lots of areas for the sediment to get there.
Another issue is that we don't let the delta build land like it used to because of the maintaining of the ship channel. The river built land by changing its channels over time to build in new areas.
The other beds out issue is the oyster fisherman. In my opinion, there should be a big push to build new areas further out and move the oyster there so we can build those areas in Port Sulfur/lower St. Bernard and Empire/Buras. This has been a huge issue with coastal erosion plans for a long time.
Posted on 4/26/17 at 7:35 am to Cowboyfan89
quote:
The fact is, they shouldn't be impeding restoration as much as they do. The process should be streamlined for those projects that propose to enhance or restore wetland functions versus those that propose to degrade or eliminate it.
National Marine Fisheries is just as bad about impeding restoration. Oh, you want to put up rock breakwaters? No says I. That destroys fish habitat and impedes fish movement.
You're going to run into issues with this sort of thing from a number of agencies. Each agency has their own mission to follow or protected group/resource that they manage for, which at times may be at odds with another agency or even sections within the same agency that you'd think would be on the "same team." Laws and bureaucracies hinder and protect all at once.
A rock breakwater is in no way restoration in Louisiana or many places along the Gulf Coast, but that's probably just a word choice thing for you in your given example. Restoring all that natural rocky coast that we have down here...oh wait. Haha. Unless you're meaning something like an oyster reef, but anyway... A lot of that coastal armoring doesn't work, or doesn't work like they think/thought it would, and appears to speed up land loss in many cases.
Posted on 4/26/17 at 7:52 am to JasonL79
quote:
The damage from the levees has been caused for 50+ years. Just blowing them up will do almost nothing except in a few areas (empire maybe).
The river is rocked on the banks from New Orleans down and the river doesn't overflow those rocks but maybe a month or two at the most each year. The sediment is not going to get back into the areas that need it that way. There would have to be spillways and diversions created in lots of areas for the sediment to get there.
Another issue is that we don't let the delta build land like it used to because of the maintaining of the ship channel. The river built land by changing its channels over time to build in new areas.
As someone already said, the River wants to flow down the Atchafalaya right now and has for years, which could be something to keep in mind if you want to attempt to get back to a "natural" state of the River. Another problem, that few bring up when they discuss sediment diversions, is that the River isn't carrying the sediment loads that it once did due to dams on tributaries upstream and whatnot. So, blowing the levees at a certain point would obviously help, but it wouldn't be some "overnight" miracle. You're talking about a process that occurred over hundreds to thousands of years with less sediment coming down River now than when it was created.
I sometimes try to imagine what the historical Mississippi must have looked like during a spring flood. A large portion of south Louisiana swamp and marsh, from the Atchafalya east, covered in sheet flow. Must have been amazing.
quote:
The other beds out issue is the oyster fisherman. In my opinion, there should be a big push to build new areas further out and move the oyster there so we can build those areas in Port Sulfur/lower St. Bernard and Empire/Buras. This has been a huge issue with coastal erosion plans for a long time.
Yep. These guys will fight pretty much everything. They are currently wanting to close Mardi Gras Pass, which opened up back with the high water in 2011-12. The Pass is basically a "free" freshwater and sediment diversion that developed near Bohemia, LA (for those that don't know), that if kept open and managed would save MILLIONS of dollars in planned diversion construction.
Oysterman have enjoyed a time of "nearby" oyster beds. So, they probably aren't harvesting oysters in "historical" oyster areas due to years of River control. Any freshwater or sediment project will push the beds farther and farther out.
Posted on 4/26/17 at 7:53 am to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
A rock breakwater is in no way restoration in Louisiana or many places along the Gulf Coast, but that's probably just a word choice thing for you in your given example. Restoring all that natural rocky coast that we have down here...oh wait. Haha. Unless you're meaning something like an oyster reef, but anyway... A lot of that coastal armoring doesn't work, or doesn't work like they think/thought it would, and appears to speed up land loss in many cases.
The southwest coast tells a different story. You look at where the breakwaters are, and there is beach building behind them. Where there are no breakwaters, no beach is building.
Are they restoration? No, you are right. They are more protection than anything, but they do have some passive restoration abilities.
But that was just an example. I am not advocating for rock armor along the entire coast. It's an expensive and relative ineffective measure. I'd rather them quit wasting money all together and just start building up areas and establishing vegetation. All these fancy engineered reintroductions and diversions are a waste of time. Work with what you have and strengthen it.
And get the agencies out of the way. The sad thing is when it's other federal or state agencies proposing restoration, and one or two continually hold up progress.
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