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Started By
Message
Weight Lifting: Thoughts/Recommendations on Breaking a Plateau
Posted on 5/13/16 at 10:07 am
Posted on 5/13/16 at 10:07 am
So I've recently started to creep up on two plateaus, both in overhead press and deadlift. I've been doing Wendler's 5-3-1 program and have seen great, consistent results, but I'm really starting to hit a wall with these two and was looking for thoughts.
-With the deadlift it's my initial pull. Once I get to about my knees I will have no problem locking it out. I imagine this means I need to work on my quads more and my postchain is fine? Is that correct? I've been reading and some seem to recommend dropping down a 100# or so and doing super fast, explosive reps to improve your ability to drive on your initial pull. Any thoughts/experience with this? Any other tips?
-With the shoulder press it's my lockout. I can go from shoulder to about eye-level, but if I fail it's going to be getting it from eye-level to lockout. I'm thinking this might mean more tricep work? I was also thinking of mixing in a split jerk program to (again) improve my explosiveness. Any other tips?
Appreciate any thoughts. I'll go back to more curls while I wait ha
!
-With the deadlift it's my initial pull. Once I get to about my knees I will have no problem locking it out. I imagine this means I need to work on my quads more and my postchain is fine? Is that correct? I've been reading and some seem to recommend dropping down a 100# or so and doing super fast, explosive reps to improve your ability to drive on your initial pull. Any thoughts/experience with this? Any other tips?
-With the shoulder press it's my lockout. I can go from shoulder to about eye-level, but if I fail it's going to be getting it from eye-level to lockout. I'm thinking this might mean more tricep work? I was also thinking of mixing in a split jerk program to (again) improve my explosiveness. Any other tips?
Appreciate any thoughts. I'll go back to more curls while I wait ha
!This post was edited on 5/13/16 at 1:58 pm
12
Posted on 5/13/16 at 10:09 am to FootballNostradamus
With the deadlift, you want to take your legs completely out of the equation.
Bend at the waist and lift in a twisting, jerking motion.
You're welcome.
Bend at the waist and lift in a twisting, jerking motion.
You're welcome.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 10:10 am to TDcline
quote:
Bend at the waist and lift in a twisting, jerking motion.
I'm no doctor but this doesn't sound quite right.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 10:10 am to FootballNostradamus
Deadlift you aren't pulling fast enough. Not enough explosion.
OHP your triceps are weak. Do more CGBP
OHP your triceps are weak. Do more CGBP
Posted on 5/13/16 at 10:15 am to FootballNostradamus
What kind of accessory work do you do on deads? Some negative pulls could help you with the first portion of the lift. Just stand on a plate.
Perhaps try getting in a rack and setting the spotter bars to about chin level. Maybe getting a few sets in of a lighter load at the back half of the lift after you finish your initial overhead press workout could help build the strength in that specific portion of the lift. To me, this would be similar to doing bench press with a block on your chest to work on building the lock out. Ive never done this, but in theory I would think it would help. Weighted dips could probably help as well as far as putting a lot of weight directly on your triceps.
quote:
With the shoulder press it's my lockout. I can go from shoulder to about eye-level, but if I fail it's going to be getting it from eye-level to lockout. I'm thinking this might mean more tricep work? I was also thinking of mixing in a split jerk program to (again) improve my explosiveness. Any other tips
Perhaps try getting in a rack and setting the spotter bars to about chin level. Maybe getting a few sets in of a lighter load at the back half of the lift after you finish your initial overhead press workout could help build the strength in that specific portion of the lift. To me, this would be similar to doing bench press with a block on your chest to work on building the lock out. Ive never done this, but in theory I would think it would help. Weighted dips could probably help as well as far as putting a lot of weight directly on your triceps.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 10:27 am to FootballNostradamus
Regarding the press, welcome to the club. 
I won't ask you for specific weights, but how is your press? % of body weight? % of bench working sets?
Dips can really help with the lockout portion, IMO.
Otherwise, more reps.
If you've put in the work and have an OH press near body weight, or if it's ~65-70% of your bench press, consider what your long-term goals are.
I've seen many fellow lifters frick their shoulders up chasing a press goal that will never happen. It's a lift that isn't for everyone, but everyone should develop a decent level of skill at.
Personally, at my mid-30's, I came to terms with my "decent" OH press. It can be hard to put your ego aside, but know your limits.
I won't ask you for specific weights, but how is your press? % of body weight? % of bench working sets?
Dips can really help with the lockout portion, IMO.
Otherwise, more reps.
If you've put in the work and have an OH press near body weight, or if it's ~65-70% of your bench press, consider what your long-term goals are.
I've seen many fellow lifters frick their shoulders up chasing a press goal that will never happen. It's a lift that isn't for everyone, but everyone should develop a decent level of skill at.
Personally, at my mid-30's, I came to terms with my "decent" OH press. It can be hard to put your ego aside, but know your limits.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 10:30 am to FootballNostradamus
quote:
With the deadlift it's my initial pull. Once I get to about my knees I will have no problem locking it out. I imagine this means I need to work on my quads more
Time to bake some hams and work on them hamstrings.
quote:
With the shoulder press it's my lockout. I can go from shoulder to about eye-level, but if I fail it's going to be getting it from eye-level to lockout. I'm thinking this might mean more tricep work?
Single DB behind the neck tricep whatever the frick its called raise with some close grip bench.
Also try some good mornings and stiff legged deads for increasing your deadlift.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 10:39 am to LSUfan20005
quote:
I won't ask you for specific weights, but how is your press? % of body weight? % of bench working sets?
Right now I'm just sub 180, and my one rep set on 5-3-1 week is 175 so I think pretty much right at 100% of my body weight. I'm also probably right around 65% of my bench press max.
If these are pretty much universal plateaus (to an extend) then I'd be fine with that, but then I come across videos of people throwing up 250#. Are they just superfreak cyborgs, or are we talking roidheads? About a year ago I set the goal of hitting 200# by the end of 2016, and I don't think I'll be making that anymore.
quote:
Dips can really help with the lockout portion, IMO.
Yea I do weighted dips once a week. I don't really love isolated tricep work on stuff like cable machines, but maybe I'll mix that in as well. I'll probably try the close-grip or reverse-grip bench instead.
quote:
Otherwise, more reps.
This is something I'll probably mix in. I rarely, if ever, go over 5-7 reps. I like high reps on squats, but never do them on overhead press. Can't hurt to mix it up!
Posted on 5/13/16 at 10:47 am to FootballNostradamus
Have you done any push-presses?
That is a common way of getting to lockout. Just don't use it as a crutch.
Your weights look good. Most people will never do a strict press over 200lbs.
If you are under 30 and can maintain a press over 170 at 180BW, you are far ahead of gen pop.
That is a common way of getting to lockout. Just don't use it as a crutch.
Your weights look good. Most people will never do a strict press over 200lbs.
If you are under 30 and can maintain a press over 170 at 180BW, you are far ahead of gen pop.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 11:08 am to FootballNostradamus
What's the rep scheme for your overhead press? Are you working specifically in the lower rep range to focus on strength or are you also incorporating some hypetrophy work as well?
Deadlift Diagnosis
As another poster suggested, try doing some elevated deadlifts to exaggerate the range of motion. Simply stand on two plates or even a very low platform/box. This will force greater hamstring activation during the movement.
quote:
Your hamstrings aren't up to par. Take a look at the starting position for the deadlift. Pay attention to the hips.
You'll notice that the pelvis is as anteriorly-tilted as it can get. This positioning places the hamstrings at a mechanical advantage early in the pull. If your hams are weak, you won't be able to get past this initial phase of the pull, so it won't even matter how strong your glutes and lower back are.
Solutions: Beat on your hamstrings in a movement-specific context. Use hip extension movements such as good mornings, glute-ham raises, stiff-legged deadlifts, pull-throughs, reverse hypers, and single-leg movements like lunges, step-ups, and split squats with longer strides.
Deadlift Diagnosis
As another poster suggested, try doing some elevated deadlifts to exaggerate the range of motion. Simply stand on two plates or even a very low platform/box. This will force greater hamstring activation during the movement.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 11:11 am to FootballNostradamus
quote:
So I've recently started to creep up on two plateaus, both in overhead press and deadlift. I've been doing Wendler's 5-3-1 program and have seen great, consistent results, but I'm really starting to hit a wall with these two and was looking for thoughts.
Get all up on The Gear, baw.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 11:39 am to saint amant steve
quote:
What's the rep scheme for your overhead press? Are you working specifically in the lower rep range to focus on strength or are you also incorporating some hypetrophy work as well?
I really only do low reps for overhead press. I'll try some hypertrophy work as well.
quote:
Deadlift Diagnosis
As another poster suggested, try doing some elevated deadlifts to exaggerate the range of motion. Simply stand on two plates or even a very low platform/box. This will force greater hamstring activation during the movement.
Love that article and the info. Thanks!
Posted on 5/13/16 at 11:41 am to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
Single DB behind the neck tricep whatever the frick its called raise
I do almost all of the complex, potentially compromising movements/lifts that are possible in the gym, but for some reason those single dumbbell tricep extensions terrify me. I've done them a couple times, and it just feels so wrong.
I know they're beneficial, but I just don't feel comfortable doing them for whatever reason.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 11:43 am to FootballNostradamus
For OH press try decreasing the weight and pausing for 2 seconds while holding the bar in the retracted position, and then when you're pressing it up, try to explode from the resting/paused position.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 11:49 am to FootballNostradamus
On the 5-3-1, do you actually do the Deload weeks or skip them? I ask because when I first started it I never wanted to deload but I think doing it is probably helps to not plateau. All I got.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 11:55 am to FootballNostradamus
You lockout strength is related more to you upper back. Try working on some heavy bent over barbell rows and heavy seated cable rows.
For OHP, when i hit a wall i do 3x5 and a triple each workout for three weeks and that usually helps me breakthrough. It helps desensitize the nervous system and helps you control the weight better.
For OHP, when i hit a wall i do 3x5 and a triple each workout for three weeks and that usually helps me breakthrough. It helps desensitize the nervous system and helps you control the weight better.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:06 pm to FootballNostradamus
Do isometrics and more eccentric control. It's easy training to a comfortable level but when you need your body to push past its comfort level you need to challenge it. Just adding weight isn't always the answer. Sometimes lowering weight and refocusing on form can pay off long term on the larger composite lifts. Muscle sequencing is way more important than most people realize.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:06 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
I've been reading and some seem to recommend dropping down a 100# or so and doing super fast, explosive reps to improve your ability to drive on your initial pull.
On a number of heavy lifts, I find that backing the weight off, keeping good form and going "explosive" helps with a lot of things.
quote:
With the shoulder press it's my lockout. I can go from shoulder to about eye-level, but if I fail it's going to be getting it from eye-level to lockout. I'm thinking this might mean more tricep work?
Maybe, stronger triceps don't necessarily result in more powerful shoulder press - it's more the other way around. Triceps are some of my strongest muscle, and I always struggle with heavy shoulder presses. YMMV, of course.
I would try some secondary shoulder lifts, maybe some alternating dumbbell presses - after you've worked with the heavy program. If nothing else, get a little hypertrophy going - maybe 3X12 with alternating dumbbell shoulder presses?
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:10 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Triceps are some of my strongest muscle, and I always struggle with heavy shoulder presses. YMMV, of course.
how far apart are your hands?
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:14 pm to CptBengal
quote:
how far apart are your hands?
Just outside shoulder width. I keep thinking I should go wider, but my arms are short enough as it is - I'd barely get it over my head if I go barbell row width.
Should I be at benchpress width grip?
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