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re: Was Hitler any worse than Alexanderthe Great , Caesar, ect...?
Posted on 2/12/16 at 8:33 am to Volvagia
Posted on 2/12/16 at 8:33 am to Volvagia
quote:
will never understand why this guy gets so much more of a pass than Hitler:
He killed more people than either Hitler or Stalin did even in their wet dreams.
This post was edited on 2/12/16 at 8:34 am
2
Posted on 2/12/16 at 8:34 am to ManBearTiger
quote:
3) Even if all of your points carried water, they are pointless because we are discussing individual tyrants who made their mark on history through genocide. No one person or party instituted a policy of genocide against Natives on the scale we're discussing.
As with the Buffalo, The Indian termination didn't need to be ordered or planned. So I guess it wasn't genocide, it was just hunting to extinction. Better?
Posted on 2/12/16 at 8:42 am to Kujo
quote:
As with the Buffalo, The Indian termination didn't need to be ordered or planned. So I guess it wasn't genocide, it was just hunting to extinction. Better?
So who are the hunter-exterminators in this scenario?
Pathogens? Whiskey? Beads?
Posted on 2/12/16 at 8:44 am to Tiger1242
No Hitler is not worse objectively. He is worst subjectively because he lost the war and history is written by the victors. Don't forget who he was fighting. He didn't declare war on the Jews. He committed war crimes on them. He fought the Bolschevists, who enslaved and terrorized his people for the next half century. And would have done a lot worse if the Americans hadn't held them in check. Something he could not have counted on.
Posted on 2/12/16 at 8:44 am to Tiger1242
Come on, Tiger 1242.
You know darn good and well that you can't judge pre-enlightenment, pre-Christianity, and pre-industrialization cultures with those that have been shaped by those factors.
It's fair to point out that Caesar and Alexander did their fair share of slaughter, but it is in no way appropriate to say they were "better or worse" than Hitler because of it.
And before you paint Caesar's Gauls and Alexander's Persians as victims, lets not forget that the Gauls once sacked Rome itself, and we all know what Persia did to Greece. Caesar was looking for personal gain, and Alexander was looking for personal fame... but to say that neither culture wasn't wanting payback with interest for prior wrong to Rome and Greece would be incorrect. Rome in particular had a very, very long memory.
You know darn good and well that you can't judge pre-enlightenment, pre-Christianity, and pre-industrialization cultures with those that have been shaped by those factors.
It's fair to point out that Caesar and Alexander did their fair share of slaughter, but it is in no way appropriate to say they were "better or worse" than Hitler because of it.
And before you paint Caesar's Gauls and Alexander's Persians as victims, lets not forget that the Gauls once sacked Rome itself, and we all know what Persia did to Greece. Caesar was looking for personal gain, and Alexander was looking for personal fame... but to say that neither culture wasn't wanting payback with interest for prior wrong to Rome and Greece would be incorrect. Rome in particular had a very, very long memory.
Posted on 2/12/16 at 8:44 am to Tiger1242
It wasn't the killing so much as the manner in which the killing was done.
Posted on 2/12/16 at 8:49 am to ManBearTiger
Biological warfare didn't exist until.....?
Posted on 2/12/16 at 8:55 am to Kujo
Most Native American deaths were caused by disease right? You can't count those towards "Americans" in this scenario. Heck you can't in any scenario being that a ton of those happened before the country was founded.
Posted on 2/12/16 at 9:02 am to Kujo
quote:
Biological warfare didn't exist until.....?
Ancient Greece
I hate to shatter your whole indignant, white-guilt world view, but an inability on the part of Native immune systems to cope with European disease is the culprit of your genocide.
Posted on 2/12/16 at 9:04 am to GeauxLSUGeaux
quote:Hitler was going to kill a races of people that weren't of his own. He was starting with the jews, but he wasn't going to end there
Hitler wanted to kill an entire race of people. We call that genocide. Its about the worst thing you can do as a human being.
Posted on 2/12/16 at 9:07 am to geauxtigers87
quote:
comparing what happened centuries ago to what happened a mere 70 years ago is hard. We're supposed to be more evolved as a civilization
I was with you here...
quote:
Hitler is responsible for more deaths than anyone in history
And asking WTF? here.
But Im a glass half full guy so I upvoted.
Posted on 2/12/16 at 9:16 am to MontyFranklyn
quote:
Hitler was going to kill a races of people that weren't of his own. He was starting with the jews, but he wasn't going to end there
He wasn't going to kill all non Arians, he was just going to knock off the least desirable of the bunch and use the rest as slave labor.
All that being said, after just finishing The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, I have a new appreciation for what his brilliance and what he was able to accomplish in such a short time. He may have been the greatest statesman of all time.
Posted on 2/12/16 at 9:33 am to MontyFranklyn
quote:
Hitler was going to kill a races of people that weren't of his own. He was starting with the jews, but he wasn't going to end there
link?
Posted on 2/12/16 at 9:35 am to Palo Gaucho
quote:
He may have been the greatest statesman of all time.
I think he has a strong case. Amazing that having read Mein Kampf or any of his idealogical writings/speech is not seen as a pre-requisite for somebody throwing their mistake-riddled expertise into these types of thread. As far as the average "Hitler expert is concerned", Mein Kampf was a 3 sentence book saying Jews were bad and should be killed.
Posted on 2/12/16 at 1:09 pm to Palo Gaucho
quote:
He may have been the greatest statesman of all time.
Maybe at first, but at the end he went off the deep end. Even his commanders tried to kill him
Posted on 2/12/16 at 5:23 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
will never understand why this guy gets so much more of a pass than Hitler: He killed more people than either Hitler or Stalin did even in their wet dreams.
One major distinction between Mao and Hitler and Stalin is that Hitler and Stalin intended to kill millions of people. Most of the deaths under Mao (some estimates as high as 40 million) were the result of his ill conceived "Great Leap Forward" imposing rigid communism on the peasants. Millions starved to death when they couldn't produce enough to feed themselves while the country was exporting grain.
China's Great Leap Forward
Posted on 2/12/16 at 6:15 pm to Tiger1242
Posted on 2/12/16 at 6:26 pm to Palo Gaucho
quote:
I have a new appreciation for what his brilliance and what he was able to accomplish in such a short time. He may have been the greatest statesman of all time.
I could start in on this statement blind, instead can you tell me what you found brilliant as well as what he was able to accomplish in such a short time that impressed you so much? As far as being the greatest statesman of all time, why would that thought even enter your melon?
Posted on 2/12/16 at 6:36 pm to Tom288
How about you start your research with the labor treasury certificates his government issued that allowed Nazi Germany to climb out of an economic depression many times worse than the one we Americans were suffering with throughout the 30s? There are many, many reasons that he shouldn't be discounted in a discussion of who was the "greatest statesman of all time," that is but one of several examples that show he's in the running. A maniac, undoubtedly. Genius? Perhaps that too. He's not exactly admirable but he deserves more credit than he gets.
Posted on 2/12/16 at 6:37 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:
link?
While his endgame may not have been complete annihilation, he planned to implement a policy that would effectively starve to death the majority of the Slavs under German occupation and the few remaining would be used as slave labor until they were worked to death.
quote:
I think he has a strong case. Amazing that having read Mein Kampf or any of his idealogical writings/speech is not seen as a pre-requisite for somebody throwing their mistake-riddled expertise into these types of thread. As far as the average "Hitler expert is concerned", Mein Kampf was a 3 sentence book saying Jews were bad and should be killed.
I've read Mein Kampf and it's an extremely poorly written work of nonsense based on absurd conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, and the delusions of a psychotic egomaniac. If you feel like there is some modicum of genius being overlooked, please enlighten us.
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