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Message
Succession lawyers - question
Posted on 7/6/17 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 7/6/17 at 12:53 pm
I don't do any succession or probate work so my knowledge is elementary, but some family asked me to point them in the right direction.
Basically, a guy dies in Oklahoma - he left a wife and adult children (none of whom are children of the current wife). He owned lots of property and allegedly (per his "will") each of the children would be left some property.
The wife dodged all questions about the will for a while, but recently informed the kids that the estate had been transferred to an irrevocable trust and they don't get anything until she dies. She has children of her own that I'm sure she would like to give all the property to if she can find a way.
I've called the County Clerk's office but no succession or probate has been done, and I've searched property records, but can't find any deeds for the trust. The wife won't produce anything and said she hired a lawyer - won't tell them who of course.
I'm going to advise my family member to call a probate lawyer in that area, but I'd like to see if there's anything more I can do for him first. Any thoughts on where to go from here to obtain a copy of something useful?
Basically, a guy dies in Oklahoma - he left a wife and adult children (none of whom are children of the current wife). He owned lots of property and allegedly (per his "will") each of the children would be left some property.
The wife dodged all questions about the will for a while, but recently informed the kids that the estate had been transferred to an irrevocable trust and they don't get anything until she dies. She has children of her own that I'm sure she would like to give all the property to if she can find a way.
I've called the County Clerk's office but no succession or probate has been done, and I've searched property records, but can't find any deeds for the trust. The wife won't produce anything and said she hired a lawyer - won't tell them who of course.
I'm going to advise my family member to call a probate lawyer in that area, but I'd like to see if there's anything more I can do for him first. Any thoughts on where to go from here to obtain a copy of something useful?
8
Posted on 7/6/17 at 12:55 pm to NaturalBeam
Maybe you could Get Gordon, and Get it Done? Or get the 'E' Guarantee?
Posted on 7/6/17 at 12:57 pm to NaturalBeam
Need to get a lawyer in OK. Lots of questions.
1) Does anyone have the original Will, or know where it can be located?
2) This "irrevocable trust" - I'm not barred in OK, but I would imagine OK law requires this to be in writing. Does anyone have that?
1) Does anyone have the original Will, or know where it can be located?
2) This "irrevocable trust" - I'm not barred in OK, but I would imagine OK law requires this to be in writing. Does anyone have that?
Posted on 7/6/17 at 12:57 pm to NaturalBeam
quote:point them in the direction of a competent succession attorney
don't do any succession or probate work so my knowledge is elementary, but some family asked me to point them in the right direction.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 12:58 pm to NaturalBeam
(no message)
This post was edited on 8/8/20 at 10:08 am
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:07 pm to NaturalBeam
First things first, get a copy of the will. And determine if it was community property, or his sole and separate property.
This post was edited on 7/6/17 at 1:11 pm
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:11 pm to PhilipMarlowe
That's the whole problem - allegedly only the wife has the will - no one else has seen it and she won't give it up or any other info on the trust. I have no other attorney to contact. Since nothing has been filed, I'm lost on how to get any info.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:13 pm to NaturalBeam
I know you'll get better answers from the Oklahoma attorney who posted, but I've encountered this once or twice.
I've usually just written a letter demanding production of the will, and when they won't, I open the succession and get a court order ordering it to be produced.
I've usually just written a letter demanding production of the will, and when they won't, I open the succession and get a court order ordering it to be produced.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:15 pm to NaturalBeam
I'm ignorant here...Since nothing was filed prior to the death, is the will in question even valid?
I'm an engineer..not a lawyer.
I'm an engineer..not a lawyer.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:16 pm to NASA_ISS_Tiger
Good thought but yes, that does not invalidate it. Generally nothing is ever filed until after death.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:20 pm to NASA_ISS_Tiger
quote:
Since nothing was filed prior to the death, is the will in question even valid?
I don't know about Oklahoma, but we typically don't file wills before death in Louisiana.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:24 pm to FalseProphet
quote:
I don't know about Oklahoma, but we typically don't file wills before death in Louisiana.
I though they had to be probated first before death?
Or just filled out and notarized?
I thought there was some kind of filing before death. My Mom lives in Sulphur and every update she makes to it has to go to the lawyer to have something done...
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:25 pm to NASA_ISS_Tiger
quote:
every update she makes to it has to go to the lawyer to have something done...
Does she pay that lawyer every time?
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:31 pm to NASA_ISS_Tiger
She's just going to make a change and revoking the old one. As soon as she signs it and its notarized, it's valid. Nothing gets filed.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:33 pm to NaturalBeam
Contact the local counties within Oklahoma. Most of the time to transfer from a will to a trust is required by some states through Probate Court. If not, and if you aren't making head way with any lawyers. Try to open an estate in his name and list one of the children in question as the executive of the estate. This usually will force her hand. It might not be cost friendly, but will get the children what they deserve from this witch.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:35 pm to NaturalBeam
Some states require trust to be open through the courts for creditors to file claims. Also maybe the family should attempt to contact debtors and see if they have filed anything. Creditors can open an estate if the estate is believed to be solvent.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:40 pm to NaturalBeam
My story of what happend is in Louisiana.
When my dad died he had a will saying everything goes to my mom. When she passes to me and my brother.
Apparently in Louisiana property is split up with kids and the wife. My mom got his 401K, CDs, etc. When my mom sold the house, his car and basically anything that had a title me and my brother had to sign off on it saying we were giving it to my mom.
For example, if the house sold for 200k my mom would get 50% and me and my brother each get 25%. Of course we signed all that over to my mom. The lawyer did say it happens often that shitty kids who haven't been around in years take all they can get. Really sad.
Lawyer up and good luck to that family.
When my dad died he had a will saying everything goes to my mom. When she passes to me and my brother.
Apparently in Louisiana property is split up with kids and the wife. My mom got his 401K, CDs, etc. When my mom sold the house, his car and basically anything that had a title me and my brother had to sign off on it saying we were giving it to my mom.
For example, if the house sold for 200k my mom would get 50% and me and my brother each get 25%. Of course we signed all that over to my mom. The lawyer did say it happens often that shitty kids who haven't been around in years take all they can get. Really sad.
Lawyer up and good luck to that family.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:48 pm to Yammie250F
quote:
When my dad died he had a will saying everything goes to my mom. When she passes to me and my brother.
Apparently in Louisiana property is split up with kids and the wife. My mom got his 401K, CDs, etc. When my mom sold the house, his car and basically anything that had a title me and my brother had to sign off on it saying we were giving it to my mom.
For example, if the house sold for 200k my mom would get 50% and me and my brother each get 25%. Of course we signed all that over to my mom. The lawyer did say it happens often that shitty kids who haven't been around in years take all they can get. Really sad.
Lawyer up and good luck to that family.
That's what happened to us. My sister being a paralegal only wanted to give mom "usefrunct" (sp?) or use of the property...I told her she needed to do the right thing and donate her half to Mom like I was doing...because that was the right thing to do.
And I truly believe it was the right thing to do...and now with Driftwood LNG taking the land and since it's only Mom that's having to deal with that mess and not Mom, me and my sister (who is now estranged by 4 years from the family with NO communication)...it was definitely the right thing to do...I have no doubt my sister would have been nasty about the whole ordeal. (BTW..I say "taking" because Mom was forced to lease for 4 years and then sell at a decent price..or face imminent domain for pennies on the dollar like they did for SASOL in Westlake).
Posted on 7/6/17 at 1:49 pm to Breesus
quote:
Does she pay that lawyer every time?
To the best of my knowledge will updates have fees associated. I'm not 100% sure.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:15 pm to NaturalBeam
If the wife won't or can't provide the will, have one of the heirs open a probate of the estate by filing an application to determine heirship. At the same time, file an application to appoint the heir as the estate administrator. The court should determine who the heirs should be and the administrator will administer and distribute the estate according to intestate law. Once appointed, the administrator can marshal all the assets and protect them. You should check the statute of limitations for opening an estate in Ok and make sure you file something within that time period.
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