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Spinoff "sin" thread... Should you be held accountable for the sins of others?
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:15 am
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:15 am
The whole concept of sin is that humans are imperfect, for whatever reason you choose to believe. That being the case, why is it ok for God to hold you accountable for something you didn't do?
Example: let's say your great great grandmother, you who never met, was found through DNA evidence to have been a serial killer. Now, as her youngest surviving relative, you are sentenced to death for her actions.
Now, any sane person I hope can agree that you dying for a psychopathic ancestor is utterly absurd, and you'd curse the jury and the judge who sentenced you as much as grandma.
But somehow, it's perfectly sane and acceptable if that ancestor is Adam and the judge and jury is the God from the bible. Please explain this logic.
Example: let's say your great great grandmother, you who never met, was found through DNA evidence to have been a serial killer. Now, as her youngest surviving relative, you are sentenced to death for her actions.
Now, any sane person I hope can agree that you dying for a psychopathic ancestor is utterly absurd, and you'd curse the jury and the judge who sentenced you as much as grandma.
But somehow, it's perfectly sane and acceptable if that ancestor is Adam and the judge and jury is the God from the bible. Please explain this logic.
This post was edited on 2/24/17 at 12:16 am
12
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:16 am to Masterag
Go to sleep.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:18 am to Masterag
quote:
Example: let's say your great great grandmother, you who never met, was found through DNA evidence to have been a serial killer. Now, as her youngest surviving relative, you are sentenced to death for her actions.
Then..everyone would be dead for some reason.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:21 am to Masterag
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:21 am to SEClint
quote:
Then..everyone would be dead for some reason.
fine, change the sentence to life in prison or torture. it doesn't matter, the concept is still the same.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:25 am to Masterag
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:28 am to Masterag
Faith may have no measure in your world, does it make it worthless to every entity? Someone places value on a shiny rock, do you question it?
Ancestors showed a lack of faith, those who can find faith have the currency to exchange for admitance.
But I've only been around for a few years, maybe in another 3-4 billion years I will have all the answers.
Ancestors showed a lack of faith, those who can find faith have the currency to exchange for admitance.
But I've only been around for a few years, maybe in another 3-4 billion years I will have all the answers.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:30 am to Masterag
quote:
it's perfectly sane and acceptable if that ancestor is Adam and the judge and jury is the God from the bible.
What?
I don't think you have a great grasp on the basic tenets of Christianity.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:34 am to Masterag
quote:
But somehow, it's perfectly sane and acceptable if that ancestor is Adam and the judge and jury is the God from the bible. Please explain this logic.
You're sadly misinformed. The belief is that Adam's original sin is bestowed upon all of us, but is wiped away through baptism. Anything after that is all on you. Even if you're never baptized, original sin is not something that you are sent to hell for.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:34 am to Masterag
quote:
fine, change the sentence to life in prison or torture. it doesn't matter, the concept is still the same.
Then everyone would be punished for something.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:46 am to Evolved Simian
quote:
What?
I don't think you have a great grasp on the basic tenets of Christianity.
in the beginning, eve and adam ate some fruit god them him not to, it brought sin into the world and he banished them and all their descendants from paradise.
yep, pretty sure i got the basics down.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:50 am to Masterag
quote:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
quote:
all have sinned
quote:
ALL
You are accountable for your own sin.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:50 am to TH03
quote:
You're sadly misinformed. The belief is that Adam's original sin is bestowed upon all of us, but is wiped away through baptism. Anything after that is all on you. Even if you're never baptized, original sin is not something that you are sent to hell for.
ok, well i skipped the logical procession of consequences because i thought you could connect the dots.
without having eaten the fruit, there would be no knowledge of good and evil, and thus no sin. the act of eating the fruit caused us all to be born in sin, so no matter what we do we cannot escape this. being baptized essentially means nothing, because we still must repent due to the sequence of events that happened after the fruit was eaten.
in short, had the fruit not been eaten we wouldn't be sinners. now, if you dare, answer my question.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 12:55 am to Evolved Simian
quote:
You are accountable for your own sin.
yeah, i get it. but the fact of the matter is as a human you cannot help BUT sin. if it's impossible NOT to sin, you effectively have NO choice in the matter.
which brings us back to the original point of YOU being held accountable for someone else bringing sin into the world and having to be held accountable for their actions.
now, can we stop playing "gotcha" and have a real discussion?
Posted on 2/24/17 at 1:32 am to Masterag
Why stop at Adam and Eve? We have to finish the story and see that God ultimately sends his Son for this condition we call "sin". In other words, even though our ancestors screwed up royally God sent his Son to make things right, that whomever calls on his name shall be saved and the slate is wiped clean.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 2:33 am to TH03
Yeah, that always bothered me growing up. Now that I have a newborn, it was weird hearing people say I need to get her baptized soon just in case. So, if she dies as a 6 week old before baptism, she deserves an eternity of suffering? It's just such a weird implication when people bring it up.
The other one growing up that bothered me is Noah's Ark. They cute it up in kid's books with the animals, but they make the killing of every other earth bound creature not lucky enough to be on that boat an afterthought.
The other one growing up that bothered me is Noah's Ark. They cute it up in kid's books with the animals, but they make the killing of every other earth bound creature not lucky enough to be on that boat an afterthought.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 2:43 am to DestrehanTiger
quote:
So, if she dies as a 6 week old before baptism, she deserves an eternity of suffering? It's just such a weird implication when people bring it up.
Protestant teaching holds that there's an age of accountability. Young children are not assigned accountability for their sins until they are capable of understanding sin and asking for salvation.
YRMV...
Posted on 2/24/17 at 4:45 am to Masterag
We are not guilty of anyone's sins but our own in Gods eyes. We do have concupiscience because of our humanity but we have the ability in each of us to choose not to sin or to sin. The great tempter just makes the bad option look better to most people.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 5:27 am to DestrehanTiger
If, like you say, your 6 week old dies, she would go to heaven. She is not at the age of accountability. She doesn't know right from wrong yet.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 8:18 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
we have the ability in each of us to choose not to sin or to sin
Obviously this is false. The Bible say NONE are without sin. It's like me giving you an IQ test and when you don't make a 160 I hold you accountable for not having the mental capacity to be a super genius.
Considering the fact that it was I who gave you that intelligence, knowing full well you didn't have the capability before I even administered the exam makes me an absolutely diabolical individual.
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