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Message
re: Normandy Church Terror: ISIS Slits Throat of Preist and Takes Nuns Hostage
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:44 am to TexasTiger90
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:44 am to TexasTiger90
There's a reason we didn't win Vietnam
2
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:44 am to Darth_Vader
I'm out, Darth I can tell you're passionate about this and we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. I can honestly say that I hope you're wrong though (as I'm sure you do too).
Sorry we couldn't find any common ground, but you've given me some new perspective on the efficacy of genocide. Til next time
Sorry we couldn't find any common ground, but you've given me some new perspective on the efficacy of genocide. Til next time
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:45 am to Salmon
quote:
calm down
I never said not to destroy ISIS, just that the reality of the situation is that in today's world, you can't carpet bomb an ideology like past times
thus my post on page 1
You're just hurling snide comments from the peanut gallery and really not making any points other than "we can't do that". Not really sure what your nihilism is contributing.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:45 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Yes, it's going to take genocide.
No it isn't
quote:
And again if you don't like my solution, I challenge you to come up with a better solution to ending the flood of Islamic terrorism.
Again, when leaders of the west put Saudi Arabia and the gulf states to the fire for enabling this extremist view nothing will change. You want to stop the corrupt ideology, look for the source. You find it traced back to Wahhabism.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:46 am to Pettifogger
quote:Why carpet bomb Raqqa when our allies, the SDF/YPG, are about 30 km away?
Obviously we'd carpet bomb Raqqa.
Definitely not mecca, unless you want WWIII
A month ago, they faked an offensive toward Raqqa, and instead launched a surprise offensive toward Manbij, which was a major city through which most of ISIS's new recruits traveled into the ISIS heartland. Now the city is encircled and 60% captured by the SDF/YPG. They were only able to succeed in this offensive thanks to US-led coalition air support (and embedded special operations to help advise and call in air strikes).
This offensive will eventually cut ISIS off from new recruits. Coalition intelligence estimates that they currently get 100 new recruits per week, so if (read: when) the offensive succeeds in cutting them off, they'll be bleeding with no way to recoup their losses.
Evidence suggests that their offensive capabilities are already significantly weakened because they've lost huge numbers of their most experienced fighters and commanders. Once they're cut off from resupply, they're going to be pretty fricked.
This post was edited on 7/26/16 at 10:47 am
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:46 am to cas4t
quote:
best approach for beating ISIS, according to Gates, is to continue training Iraq forces and advising them, and training and arming Sunni tribes as well as the Kurds in the region.
"Those ethnic groups, those structures need to provide the ground troops to not only take these areas back from ISIS but then to hold them," he said. "What we have to do is find a way to re-assert the role we played in Iraq until we pulled all of our troops out, or almost all of them out, by fostering greater cooperation among the different ethnic groups and sectarian groups in Iraq."
In the past, U.S military brass, including Gen. David Petraeus, got Sunni, Kurd and Shia leaders to sit around a dinner table and talk to each other, which led, he explained, to compromise. The current situation in Iraq—which has allowed ISIS to take hold—is very much the result of these groups no longer working together, according to Gates.
I like Gates a lot, but he's advocating for indefinite babysitting. The idea that these fragile alliances are going to hold without heavy and continued intervention on our part (while costing lives and treasure) is bullshite.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:46 am to Salmon
quote:
It blows my mind that people are trying to compare the eradication of an ideal in 1943 to present day
Why is that so hard to see? Are we not trying to eradicate Islamic terrorism just like we were trying to eradicate nazis? Obviously our methods are different now but its still trying fight against people who want to destroy us and our way of living.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:47 am to upgrayedd
quote:
Not really sure what your nihilism is contributing.
realism?
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:48 am to Cdawg
quote:I agree with you here. Saudi Arabia and other gulf states definitely support radicals and that has to stop.
Again, when leaders of the west put Saudi Arabia and the gulf states to the fire for enabling this extremist view nothing will change. You want to stop the corrupt ideology, look for the source. You find it traced back to Wahhabism.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:48 am to Cdawg
quote:
when leaders of the west put Saudi Arabia and the gulf states to the fire for enabling this extremist view nothing will change. You want to stop the corrupt ideology, look for the source. You find it traced back to Wahhabism.
I haven't read the whole thread yet, but this is the most viable substantive solution so far.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:48 am to Salmon
quote:
realism?
I don't know. You're toeing the line.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:49 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
Why carpet bomb Raqqa when our allies, the SDF/YPG, are about 30 km away?
I'm not necessarily advocating the carpet bombing of Raqqa, but I was answering a question about where we would target if seeking the "heart of ISIS."
We could also make Dabiq a lake.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:49 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
A month ago, they faked an offensive toward Raqqa, and instead launched a surprise offensive toward Manbij, which was a major city through which most of ISIS's new recruits traveled into the ISIS heartland. Now the city is encircled and 60% captured by the SDF/YPG. They were only able to succeed in this offensive thanks to US-led coalition air support (and embedded special operations to help advise and call in air strikes).
This offensive will eventually cut ISIS off from new recruits. Coalition intelligence estimates that they currently get 100 new recruits per week, so if (read: when) the offensive succeeds in cutting them off, they'll be bleeding with no way to recoup their losses.
Evidence suggests that their offensive capabilities are already significantly weakened because they've lost huge numbers of their most experienced fighters and commanders. Once they're cut off from resupply, they're going to be pretty fricked.
I agree that could work but only under the condition that the Kurds are allowed to keep that territory as their own and backed by UN. We can't keep hanging these people out to dry. They need their own official state.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:50 am to Salmon
quote:
quote:
Not really sure what your nihilism is contributing.
realism?
Nihilism
It's easy just to sit back and say "nah, you can't do that but I don't know"
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:52 am to Darth_Vader
I'm very, very happy that you aren't in charge of this situation.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:52 am to Pettifogger
It's more about propping up the military and training domestic Armies. Do you not believe by not doing this, then the next cousin of ISIS will form?
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:52 am to Grim
quote:
You really think those are the only 2 options? What's it like having the brain of a child?
Very well, instead of throwing around lame insults, why don't you instead list out what other options you think we've got.
I'll be waiting for your reply.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:53 am to upgrayedd
quote:
They need their own official state
Yeah I'd support a Kurdistan. It's pretty remarkable those people don't hate us now, they need sovereignty. Honestly the whole place should be carved into more logical borders and it could go a long way to getting it into shape.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:53 am to upgrayedd
quote:
It's easy just to sit back and say "nah, you can't do that but I don't know"
I realize that, I do
but I also realize that "I don't know" should be an acceptable answer to a problem
I've seen some solid replies in this thread from more level headed people that I agree with, and I never said we could not defeat ISIS, but more talking about the ideals that created ISIS to begin with
but I'll never agree with genocide
Posted on 7/26/16 at 10:54 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
And that mindset is why things will only get worse for us. We're facing an enemy that does not share your aversion to genicide. In fact, they openly advocate genocide. Like it or not, we are in a war of civilizations.
Winner, winner. Ask any member of ISIS, al-Qaeda or even a "moderate" Pakistani or Egyptian or Saudi. They want Sharia law across the planet and their faith teaches that you must convert to Islam or die. This shite is IN THEIR OWN KORAN.
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