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100 years ago this week, the Battle of Jutland
Posted on 5/29/16 at 9:55 am
Posted on 5/29/16 at 9:55 am
The only daylight mass fleet action of the Dreadnought era. The things were so hideously expensive that nations were reluctant to put them at risk after this, and then, they were rendered obsolete by naval aviation.
Great interactive site here LINK
Great interactive site here LINK
9
Posted on 5/29/16 at 9:56 am to Jim Rockford
Looks like my Sunday just got booked up.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 10:02 am to Jim Rockford
Spoiler Alert:
Jutland was a nominal German victory but the German surface fleet never ventured out again in WWI.
The Orkneys and of course Scapa Flow are on my short list, Scotland probably next year.
Jutland was a nominal German victory but the German surface fleet never ventured out again in WWI.
The Orkneys and of course Scapa Flow are on my short list, Scotland probably next year.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 10:05 am to Jim Rockford
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today." - Admiral David Beatty, after two British dreadnoughts had exploded
Posted on 5/29/16 at 10:06 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Jellicoe's grandson narrates the video on the site. There's also a BBC special this week. Don't know if it's on BBC America.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 11:04 am to RollTide1987
quote:
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today." - Admiral David Beatty, after two British dreadnoughts had exploded
Yeah, this;
quote:
Though Beatty's larger 13.5 in (340 mm) guns out-ranged Hipper's 11 and 12 in (280 and 300 mm) guns by thousands of yards, Beatty held his fire for 10 minutes and closed the German squadron until within range of the Germans' superior gunnery, under lighting conditions that favoured the Germans.[170] Most of the British losses in tonnage occurred in Beatty's force.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 11:07 am to Jim Rockford
:blueprintforarmageddon:
Posted on 5/29/16 at 11:12 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Dreadnought
Maybe the coolest word ever
Posted on 5/29/16 at 11:37 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Looks like my Sunday just got booked up
Darth, you may find yourself getting hooked. Before there were tanks roving the battlefields with armor brittleness factors and armor-piercing discarding sabot rounds flying towards AFV targets, there were the big dreadnought battleships of World War One firing two-thousand pound shells at each other from 18 kilometers away.
Point blank range was 10 kilometers and if a shell from the German Battlecruiser Lutzow struck one of Beatty's ships at that range, there's a very good chance that the whole ship would explode.
Armor piercing shell, armor belts, all of these topics were important to battleship stories before they were topics of tank warfare.
We've all seen pictures and read stories about tanks exploding, but, can you imagine the horror of a huge ship with hundreds of crew exploding to bits and instantly sinking with the complete loss of life of the entire crew?
This war story has as much of the horror, pathos, drama, sadness and glory of any of history's war stories.
Queen Mary Explodes
The wiki article on Jutland is surprisingly good. The following sections tell the whole story about WHY the British ships exploded and the German ones did not:
British self critique
Shell performance
Ammunition handling.
The terrifying reality is that the propellant flaws and ammo handling flaws that caused a few of the British Battlecruisers to explode, these flaws were also present with the entire British Grand Fleet of battleships. Had the Jutland battle been fought with good visibility all around and for a longer time between opposing battleships, some of the British battleships would also have exploded after being hit, because they had the same flaws of volatile propellant and risky handling of propellant in the gun house and turret.
This post was edited on 5/29/16 at 11:52 am
Posted on 5/29/16 at 11:45 am to Jim Rockford
Cool site .....thanks for posting.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 11:57 am to 14&Counting
Watched," A Bridge Too Far" last night.
Brutal beating the English took, the General(Connery) at end, says he took 10K to the area, and came back with 2.
They literally couldn't move from their fox holes or from dilapidated buildings or would be shot by german snipers. Surrounded by germans and panzers, only a Night evacuation, saved the remaining soldiers(few), who weren't left behind for dead, or injured and captured. There were more people left injured for capture, than those who made the evacuation escape.
Brutal beating the English took, the General(Connery) at end, says he took 10K to the area, and came back with 2.
They literally couldn't move from their fox holes or from dilapidated buildings or would be shot by german snipers. Surrounded by germans and panzers, only a Night evacuation, saved the remaining soldiers(few), who weren't left behind for dead, or injured and captured. There were more people left injured for capture, than those who made the evacuation escape.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 12:02 pm to Jim Rockford
How did the British Grand Fleet set sail even before the German fleet involved in the operation set sail?
Was it a coincidence?
Or had the British gained possession of the German Naval Code Book?
Was it a coincidence?
Or had the British gained possession of the German Naval Code Book?
Posted on 5/29/16 at 12:54 pm to Champagne
A German naval code book was collected by the Russians in 1914 from a German cruiser that ran aground in Russian territorial waters.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 12:57 pm to Champagne
quote:
How did the British Grand Fleet set sail even before the German fleet involved in the operation set sail?
Was it a coincidence?
Or had the British gained possession of the German Naval Code Book?
Brits knew what the Germans were going to do before a lot of the German ships knew.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 2:57 pm to Darth_Vader
You know, for a race of people that are often said to be the smartest in the world, the Germans have forever been REALLY TERRIBLE in the area of Military Intelligence, spy stuff and all things "G-2".
You know that a war vessel holding the code book goes aground and is seized by the enemy in 1914. TWO YEARS LATER, you STILL haven't bothered to get a NEW code book.
It's astonishingly incompetent and stupid.
You know that a war vessel holding the code book goes aground and is seized by the enemy in 1914. TWO YEARS LATER, you STILL haven't bothered to get a NEW code book.
It's astonishingly incompetent and stupid.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:02 pm to Champagne
And what's worse, is it appears they failed to learn this lesson from WWI and failed horribly in the MI field again in WWII.
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:03 pm to Darth_Vader
What would have happened if the two fleets at Jutland had had more time and better visibility to let the battleships fight it out? The British battleships would been exploding and not just a few of their battlecruisers.
Britain could conceivably and quite possibly have lost a enough battleships to allow the German fleet to break the blockade. That would have had far-reaching consequences on the course of the war.
Another point. With regard to US entry into WW1. The Jutland video graciously posted for us proves that the US entry into the war immediately and decisively turned the war against the Germans in the War at Sea.
Just because the US ground forces didn't really get going until 1918 doesn't mean a thing. Those ground forces were decisive, but, even more so, the US Navy's entry was decisive in defeating Germany's U-Boot war against Britain's economy. The US Navy got into the fight immediately in spring, 1917, right at the point in time when the U-boots were sinking around a million tons of British shipping.
Britain could conceivably and quite possibly have lost a enough battleships to allow the German fleet to break the blockade. That would have had far-reaching consequences on the course of the war.
Another point. With regard to US entry into WW1. The Jutland video graciously posted for us proves that the US entry into the war immediately and decisively turned the war against the Germans in the War at Sea.
Just because the US ground forces didn't really get going until 1918 doesn't mean a thing. Those ground forces were decisive, but, even more so, the US Navy's entry was decisive in defeating Germany's U-Boot war against Britain's economy. The US Navy got into the fight immediately in spring, 1917, right at the point in time when the U-boots were sinking around a million tons of British shipping.
This post was edited on 5/29/16 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:05 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
And what's worse, is it appears they failed to learn this lesson from WWI and failed horribly in the MI field again in WWII.
This is why one of the most successful recruiting slogans for the National Socialists was:
"Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi Party"
Of course, in Germany, this slogan would be in German.
This post was edited on 5/29/16 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:17 pm to Champagne
quote:
What would have happened if the two fleets at Jutland had had more time and better visibility to let the battleships fight it out? The British battleships would been exploding and not just a few of their battlecruisers.
Britain could conceivably and quite possibly have lost a enough battleships to allow the German fleet to break the blockade. That would have had far-reaching consequences on the course of the war.
Had the Battle of Jutland ended with a decisive German victory, there a good chance Britian would have sued for peace not long after I believe. Remember what Churchill said of Admiral Jellicoe, he said he was "the only man on either side who could lose the war in an afternoon".
quote:
Another point. With regard to US entry into WW1. The Jutland video graciously posted for us proves that the US entry into the war immediately and decisively turned the war against the Germans in the War at Sea.
Just because the US ground forces didn't really get going until 1918 doesn't mean a thing. Those ground forces were decisive, but, even more so, the US Navy's entry was decisive in defeating Germany's U-Boot war against Britain's economy. The US Navy got into the fight immediately in spring, 1917, right at the point in time when the U-boots were sinking around a million tons of British shipping.
Very good point and an all too often overlooked aspect of WWI.
This post was edited on 5/29/16 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 5/29/16 at 3:44 pm to Jim Rockford
Something like this would be cool for the Battle of Dien Bien Phu.
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