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re: Would it better to have Sheldon Rankings applying a push from the outside/inside
Posted on 5/1/16 at 3:19 pm to Fun Bunch
Posted on 5/1/16 at 3:19 pm to Fun Bunch
I think the Tull talk from people is too early. I hope he can contribute, as well as Williams, but he needs to show something first.
Otherwise yeah.
Otherwise yeah.
0
Posted on 5/1/16 at 3:20 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
And where did I call you any names?
quote:
But that's okay because I'm clueless. I also think I know more than professional scouts and coaches because I watched two whole games on this player and that makes me an expert."
Sorry, but a lot of scouts and media services didn't have Rankins very high on their boards until the Senior Bowl. He is a camp star.
quote:
You spout this same narrative but provide no evidence for your thoughts or my or others' counterpoints.
I've countered it time and time again with video proof. He doesn't provide pass rush outside of a bull rush with an inconsistent get off and he gets shoved around on run plays. He played DE at 300 pounds which leads me to think he got bullied at NT. He is supposedly a great interior pass rusher but I see him get mauled by tackles and guards time and time again. Once you get your hands on Rankins, he's done. I've said that time and time again and the only proof you've given me that he isn't what I see with my very own eyes is that the scouts know better. Sorry, I don't see it. The Saints thought Stanley Jean-Baptiste wa a second round pick. Everyone though Trent Richardson was the best RB they'd seen in years. Everyone succumbs to groupthink at times.
quote:
Furthermore you watched two videos and think you know their scheme, but it's been said (and you can watch other games) that they run multiple fronts and both one and two gap (which can be seen in the videos you posted, though these were games where they were containing the qb more and ran more two gap).
Please. For God's sake. Show me where they used Rankins as a one gapper. I'd love to see it. Show me where he got great interior push.
quote:
It's like you purposely found the two games where they played two gap with him more at end to try to prove some false point, which the videos still don't prove.
All of the videos I've watched on Draft Breakdown were all 2 gap schemes. I didn't purposely pick out bad film. I used the only film I have.
Posted on 5/1/16 at 3:31 pm to rmnldr
There's plenty of film of him playing zero, 3 and 5. 1 gap and 2 gap.
You realize there's a reason he was so well thought of.
He's really good.
You realize there's a reason he was so well thought of.
He's really good.
Posted on 5/1/16 at 3:36 pm to Fun Bunch
Can you show me some? I'm not seeing it in any of the stuff from Draft Breakdown. I really want to believe Rankins was good enough to be a first round pick. I'm just as big of a Saints fan as y'all are.
Posted on 5/1/16 at 3:46 pm to rmnldr
PFF if I remember correctly had him as a top five rated DT in 2014 and 2nd this year only to Buckner.
Posted on 5/1/16 at 3:48 pm to goatmilker
I don't use PFF to judge players. I don't think their ratings represent a player and their abilities at all. I prefer to use game film to see what they can do and what they do in certain situations. I think it's better than any rating, stat, or grade.
Posted on 5/1/16 at 3:50 pm to rmnldr
Just more info man. Use it or not. Not in your case.
Posted on 5/1/16 at 3:51 pm to rmnldr
quote:This is what you're basically saying:
I don't use PFF to judge players. I don't think their ratings represent a player and their abilities at all. I prefer to use game film to see what they can do and what they do in certain situations. I think it's better than any rating, stat, or grade.
Your eyeball test > PFF statistics + The opinion of the vast majority of experts + The eyeball test of the vast majority of STers.
That seems narcissistic.
Ignoring evidence because it does not fit your presuppositions is a cognitive distortion.
This post was edited on 5/1/16 at 3:53 pm
Posted on 5/1/16 at 3:53 pm to rmnldr
If you used game film, you'd have a higher opinion of him. Your attack on Rankins almost seems personal, which I'm sure it isn't, but you are trying to destroy a player who on paper and on film looks very very good. I just don't see what you see when I watch the videos.
Posted on 5/1/16 at 3:54 pm to Hoodoo Man
No. I don't use PFF for anyone. I see how the experts would gush over him after the Senior Bowl but that's the only time I really heard anyone truly say he was going to be a 1st round pick. You guys haven't said what you think.
What do you see? Do you like his pass rushing moves? Do you like how he defends the run? Just tell me your opinion so we can both evaluate a player. I really want you guys to show me what you see because I want to see it too.
I am using game film. It's not really an attack on Rankins. I think he's a good player but I don't think he was a 1st round talent. I don't think he's better than most of the DTs that went after him into the third round. In fact, I like the other DT we picked over Rankins in some aspects.
I've watched his tape for 3 days for hours now and I don't see a lot of technique, I see great strength, his get off isn't that good, and that he doesn't shed blocks well. What specifics do you see in game film? If you guys could link to a specific time in a YouTube video I'd really appreciate it.
What do you see? Do you like his pass rushing moves? Do you like how he defends the run? Just tell me your opinion so we can both evaluate a player. I really want you guys to show me what you see because I want to see it too.
quote:
If you used game film, you'd have a higher opinion of him. Your attack on Rankins almost seems personal, which I'm sure it isn't, but you are trying to destroy a player who on paper and on film looks very very good. I just don't see what you see when I watch the videos.
I am using game film. It's not really an attack on Rankins. I think he's a good player but I don't think he was a 1st round talent. I don't think he's better than most of the DTs that went after him into the third round. In fact, I like the other DT we picked over Rankins in some aspects.
I've watched his tape for 3 days for hours now and I don't see a lot of technique, I see great strength, his get off isn't that good, and that he doesn't shed blocks well. What specifics do you see in game film? If you guys could link to a specific time in a YouTube video I'd really appreciate it.
This post was edited on 5/1/16 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 5/1/16 at 3:58 pm to rmnldr
quote:
Please. For God's sake. Show me where they used Rankins as a one gapper. I'd love to see it. Show me where he got great interior push.
Do you mean one tech? Gap isn't the same as technique. One gap vs two gap is just how many gaps a player is responsible for. 3 tech DTs like Rankins typically only have one gap responsibility.
I don't feel like looking through all of his videos trying to find a play where he is clearly playing at the 1 or 0 tech. It's difficult to tell from the typical angles used in football broadcasts. The ESPN video shown when he was drafted showed him playing the 0-tech several times.
He's an article from Scout:
quote:
He makes an impact in the run and pass game. He played as a 5-Tech, 3-Tech, 1-Tech and 0-Tech.
LINK
Here's one from the Washington Post:
quote:
“I just feel like my versatility does a lot for me — the fact that I’ve played in a 3-4, I’ve played in a 4-3, I’ve played all up and down the D-line, from ‘zero nose’ to a ‘five technique’,” Rankins said at the combine in February.
LINK /
To be fair, you might be right and Rankins could have been lying.
Posted on 5/1/16 at 4:01 pm to THRILLHO
quote:
Do you mean one tech? Gap isn't the same as technique. One gap vs two gap is just how many gaps a player is responsible for. 3 tech DTs like Rankins typically only have one gap responsibility.
I specifically meant one gapping since Louisville plays a 2-gap 3-4 hybrid defense. I haven't seen him at anything than DE over the tackle playing 2 gap responsibilities.
quote:
I don't feel like looking through all of his videos trying to find a play where he is clearly playing at the 1 or 0 tech. It's difficult to tell from the typical angles used in football broadcasts. The ESPN video shown when he was drafted showed him playing the 0-tech several times.
Could you link me to it? It would change my opinion greatly if he can get penetration on the interior.
Thanks for the links, I'll check them out soon.
Posted on 5/1/16 at 4:02 pm to Bengaltyger4life
Saints need interior pressure. That's why they drafted Rankins
/thread
/thread
Posted on 5/1/16 at 4:02 pm to Froman
Yeah I watched the same two videos he keeps posting and one he was okay in and the other was a great game.
Nothing I saw was consistently bad (especially the outright lie about him being pushed back 2-3 yards or more consistently). He's had a few bad snaps and some mediocre ones but he's had way more positive than negative snaps.
I don't think this guy understands what he's looking at at all. Maybe he thinks all first rounders need to get 6 sacks every game?
Nothing I saw was consistently bad (especially the outright lie about him being pushed back 2-3 yards or more consistently). He's had a few bad snaps and some mediocre ones but he's had way more positive than negative snaps.
I don't think this guy understands what he's looking at at all. Maybe he thinks all first rounders need to get 6 sacks every game?
Posted on 5/1/16 at 4:06 pm to rmnldr
quote:
I specifically meant one gapping since Louisville plays a 2-gap 3-4 hybrid defense. I haven't seen him at anything than DE over the tackle playing 2 gap responsibilities.
Because you've only watched two videos, and then ignore where he played inside on a few of those snaps in those videos.
You purposely keep showing the two games where he played 2 gap end (and it was in 3-4 and 4-3 in both videos; not even close to only 3-4; and he did play a little one gap in those also) more often to try to create some bullshite narrative.
This post was edited on 5/1/16 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 5/1/16 at 4:10 pm to bonethug0108
No, they don't need stats to be productive. I just like seeing my first round DL win their assignments instead of being stonewalled each play.
I found an interesting article where they showed off some flashes that he exhibits:
Very nice swim move vs. Florida State
The guard takes Rankin's outside shoulder and Rankins goes straight ahead basically untouched. I don't think the OL even engaged him.
Great shed vs Florida State
He might've pulled on his facemask here, considering how low the center's head dropped. I don't think he can get away with this on a consistent basis.
I like to see him at nose though, I hadn't seen that until here.
Budding spin move
I've seen him try to do this before. I like that he tries it here against the guard but his ice pick was severely lacking strength. It may be due to his shorter arms.
I feel better watching those clips but I still don't know how he holds up vs. the run. I've never been concerned about him in a pass rushing set because of his quickness, but I don't see him as a three down player.
I've linked 3 or 4 videos already. Where they exclusively play 3 linemen and a linebacker. It's a hybrid 3-4. I don't have footage of him playing anything more than 2 gap. It's hard to tell if he's playing 1 or 2 gaps because of the angle, as the other guy said. I just don't see him use pass rushing moves in the film that I link. The Florida State clips I posted above I like. I can't find that film though.
I'm not trying to create some bullshite narrative, jackass. I'm trying to evaluate him but you keep going backwards instead of forwards.
eta: I don't remember seeing him play nose. It must've been really rare because seeing him play it in that clip was pretty jarring.
I found an interesting article where they showed off some flashes that he exhibits:
Very nice swim move vs. Florida State
The guard takes Rankin's outside shoulder and Rankins goes straight ahead basically untouched. I don't think the OL even engaged him.
Great shed vs Florida State
He might've pulled on his facemask here, considering how low the center's head dropped. I don't think he can get away with this on a consistent basis.
I like to see him at nose though, I hadn't seen that until here.
Budding spin move
I've seen him try to do this before. I like that he tries it here against the guard but his ice pick was severely lacking strength. It may be due to his shorter arms.
I feel better watching those clips but I still don't know how he holds up vs. the run. I've never been concerned about him in a pass rushing set because of his quickness, but I don't see him as a three down player.
quote:
Because you've only watched two videos, and then ignore where he played inside on a few of those snaps in those videos. You purposely keep showing the two games where he played 2 gap end (and it was in 3-4 and 4-3 in both videos; not even close to only 3-4; and he did play a little one gap in those also) more often to try to create some bullshite narrative.
I've linked 3 or 4 videos already. Where they exclusively play 3 linemen and a linebacker. It's a hybrid 3-4. I don't have footage of him playing anything more than 2 gap. It's hard to tell if he's playing 1 or 2 gaps because of the angle, as the other guy said. I just don't see him use pass rushing moves in the film that I link. The Florida State clips I posted above I like. I can't find that film though.
I'm not trying to create some bullshite narrative, jackass. I'm trying to evaluate him but you keep going backwards instead of forwards.
eta: I don't remember seeing him play nose. It must've been really rare because seeing him play it in that clip was pretty jarring.
This post was edited on 5/1/16 at 4:21 pm
Posted on 5/1/16 at 4:13 pm to THRILLHO
Rankins is not going to be asked to play the nose, or even taken on many tough assignments to begin. We want to put our guys in the best situations to succeed while they transition to a new position like Kikaha, or a new level of competition like Rankins and Onyemata. I think to start off, we'll see fronts like below, where we give them 1v1 assignments more often than not. We'll know how good they are based on how well they handle the beginner level challenges.
In the Under, Fairley is picking up some of a double team to help Kikaha hit the edge... There is no need to ask Rankins to do this right away with Nick here.
In the Over, Rankins is getting a 1v1 with the RG, while Cam absorbs the double. Bobby or Onyemata are big enough to handle the 1v1 with the LT, while we know Kikaha is not.
Line it up and draw it up, and you'll know where these guys fit right away. Baby steps.
In the Under, Fairley is picking up some of a double team to help Kikaha hit the edge... There is no need to ask Rankins to do this right away with Nick here.
In the Over, Rankins is getting a 1v1 with the RG, while Cam absorbs the double. Bobby or Onyemata are big enough to handle the 1v1 with the LT, while we know Kikaha is not.
Line it up and draw it up, and you'll know where these guys fit right away. Baby steps.
Posted on 5/1/16 at 4:20 pm to patendedgmf
Damn nice work
Posted on 5/1/16 at 4:22 pm to patendedgmf
i actually expect that stephone anthony is going to slide to the strongside spot this year, he's better suited there. has to stop missing tackles, though.
Posted on 5/1/16 at 4:26 pm to HMTVBrian2
quote:
i actually expect that stephone anthony is going to slide to the strongside spot this year, he's better suited there. has to stop missing tackles, though.
The Sam in the under front is more of a standup DE. That's why he has Anthony at Will in that front.
The under basically becomes a bear front with the capability of playing man on the TE with the Sam backer.
This post was edited on 5/1/16 at 4:27 pm
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