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Started By
Message
Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense
Posted on 9/22/17 at 11:35 am
Posted on 9/22/17 at 11:35 am
Posted by Darin Gantt on September 22, 2017, 10:24 AM EDT PFT
quote:
The Saints are bad at defense. The Saints have been bad at defense for many years. That’s no longer an accident or a coincidence. Saints coach Sean Payton admitted some draft misses haven’t helped them climb out of their perpetual rebuild on defense, which is part of the reason they’re struggling so much now.
“When you’re not playing well on defense, there’s always going to be a few common themes with regards to getting off the field on third down,” Payton said, via Herbie Teope . “Statistically, a number of those things. But, man, you’re going back a ways here now.
If you’re going back to when we first struggled in 2014, it hasn’t been good. . . . “I would say the other common theme is we have missed on a handful of defensive players in the draft and that process has gotten better.”
Dumping a former first-round pick (linebacker Stephone Anthony) for spare change (a fifth-round pick) was a symptom of a larger disease. Since hitting on 2011 first-rounder Cameron Jordan, they’ve burned high picks on players such as second-round cornerback Stanley Jean Baptiste (2014).
Then there’s 2013 first-rounder Kenny Vaccaro, who’s on the trade block and was benched. None of the four defensive players chosen in 2014 are still with the team, and 2015 picks Davis Tull and Damian Swann are already gone. So it’s hardly a coincidence they’ve struggled.
Since their last playoff appearance in 2013, the Saints haven’t finished higher than 27th in the league in total defense or 28th in the league in scoring defense. They’ve also endured the regrettable Rob Ryan era, and aren’t that far removed from setting a league record for yards allowed in a season (7,042 in 2012).
But Payton wanted to make sure not to blame coordinator Dennis Allen. “It’s never going to be the coordinator’s defense himself,” Payton said. “It’s going to be the Saints defense, No. 1. “No. 2, from a personnel standpoint, how we and what we pay attention to, and first hand making sure that it’s something I’m comfortable with in regards to personnel. And making sure that we’ve asked the right question, so we know the player can learn and we know the player can fit in this role. And I think that process recently has served us very well.”
If recent first-round picks such as Sheldon Rankins and Marshon Lattimore can help fix things, some of the questions may subside. But there’s no sign at the moment things are getting better.
9
Posted on 9/22/17 at 11:40 am to Mrwhodat
So fire Loomis is what Payton is saying
Posted on 9/22/17 at 11:41 am to Mrwhodat
This message brought to you by: No shite, Incorporated
Posted on 9/22/17 at 11:58 am to Mrwhodat
Posted on 9/22/17 at 12:04 pm to Mrwhodat
well this isn't good.
my main takeaway from all of that is he is still vouching for Allen...
my main takeaway from all of that is he is still vouching for Allen...
Posted on 9/22/17 at 12:44 pm to Mrwhodat
So Allen is in no way responsible for anything according to Payton. He's covering for his boy who has not once coached a defense worth a damn. Prior to coming to NOLA, he was a DC for one season and did literally nothing special.
While Denver had the worst defense in the league in 2010 (32nd total yards and points allowed), Allen came in and put them at 24th in scoring and 20th in yards. Ironically, it didn't hurt that Fox was hired as Head coach that year and was a defensive guru.
While he wasn't horrible, he wasn't anything special seeing as once he left to go be HC in Oakland the very next year, Denver's defense vaulted to #2 under Fox in the next year, and it was clear Allen had little to do with it.
Combine that with his epic failure as HC in Oakland and that proves he's worthless. Hell our DB play has been horrible almost every year outside of 2009.
While Denver had the worst defense in the league in 2010 (32nd total yards and points allowed), Allen came in and put them at 24th in scoring and 20th in yards. Ironically, it didn't hurt that Fox was hired as Head coach that year and was a defensive guru.
While he wasn't horrible, he wasn't anything special seeing as once he left to go be HC in Oakland the very next year, Denver's defense vaulted to #2 under Fox in the next year, and it was clear Allen had little to do with it.
Combine that with his epic failure as HC in Oakland and that proves he's worthless. Hell our DB play has been horrible almost every year outside of 2009.
This post was edited on 9/22/17 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 9/22/17 at 12:58 pm to Mrwhodat
quote:
But Payton wanted to make sure not to blame coordinator Dennis Allen. “It’s never going to be the coordinator’s defense himself,”
But it was totally Gibbs, Spags, and Ryan's fault right?
I mean Ryan had the 4th best defense his first year before they cut everyone and Payton told him to run the Seahawks defense. Didn't even consult him when bringing in players such as Byrd to see if he could work with them. When Payton's mandate failed they brought in Allen to babysit and Ryan took the fall.
Spags (who really tried to force the players to his scheme so understandble there) got one year.
Yet Allen is in no way responsible. Ryan was here during the bad drafting and FA signings (Byrd, Brownern etc.). Allen is here with the better drafting and FA signings (minus Laraunitis), yet continues to get a pass.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 1:08 pm to bonethug0108
LINK
quote:
"If Coach could go back, I’m sure that he would keep [Jenkins and safety Roman Harper in 2014], because they brought much more to the team than just performance and stats," said Greer, who now analyzes the NFL for TSN. "Their leadership and that stability on the back end was key to keeping our team mentally afloat when the hard times came.
"We had a really good defense; we were pretty opportunistic. But the thing is, we were pretty consistent with the starting lineup. You know, we had the same 11 on the field for an extended period of time. ... Because in the middle of the game, when you’re in Week 8, 9, 10, you need to understand how your teammates play, what their tendencies are, how they react to motions, to shifts."
Greer pointed to an ugly play near the start of Sunday’s 36-20 loss to the New England Patriots: Second-year safety Vonn Bell moved rookie cornerback Marshon Lattimore out of press coverage after running back James White shifted from the outside to the inside, something Greer said is usually a no-no. And White wound up gaining 12 yards on the third-and-5 play.
"When I saw that, I realized that they were disjointed, that they were not communicating effectively. But those are little nuances you get when you’ve played with a player for a long period of time," Greer said. "Teams are gonna use motions and shifts to make those defensive backs communicate. And if they’re not comfortable communicating with each other, if they don’t know each other’s playing styles, they’re gonna be in for a very long season."
quote:
Shanle said he sees potential in the Saints’ latest defensive incarnation, including rookie starters Lattimore, linebacker Alex Anzalone and safety Marcus Williams.
"But that’s been the problem -- they’ve been way too young on defense the past few years," said Shanle, who now analyzes the Saints for Cox Sports Television. "I believe that Dennis knows what he’s doing. But I don’t care if you bring Wade Phillips in, Buddy Ryan, whoever you want to bring in, I still think you’re not gonna have a great defense, just because some of the mistakes these guys are making on the back end.
"Everybody knows the secondary’s been the Achilles' heel of this team. I mean, we saw it in ’09 -- when we finally fixed the back end, we were able to do what we wanted to do on defense and be aggressive and play man [coverage]. Until you do that, all you do is try to do smoke and mirrors to cover up for those guys back there."
Posted on 9/22/17 at 1:11 pm to bonethug0108
Yeah, people forget how good the defense was in Ryan's first season, though IIRC he had a similar arc in Dallas (really good in first season, then it fell off a cliff).
I certainly don't mean to sunshine pump as we're a shitshow right now, but we have a lot of key rookies (Lattimore, Marcus Williams, Anzalone, Loewen) and players that are essentially rookies (Kikaha, Rankins, PJ Williams, Onyematta all have under 16 games regular season experience) starting or getting big playing time. Breaux's return will get Crawley/Harris off the field, which will be huge if he returns to rookie form. I want to see how the defense is playing in games 10-16 before I start thinking about firing the defensive coaching staff again.
Payton himself has done a bad job, though. His TO usage at the end of the first half against the Vikings was inexcusable. Two TO's left, using one after the 1st down Vikings play (~3 yard gain) was fine. Using one after the 2nd down play (~4 yard gain) was idiotic. Use it after the third down play. It pretty much gives you the same results in terms of how much time you'll have with the ball before halftime. The only difference is that using it after 2nd encourages them to run on third down instead of passing, but I don't think that advantage is close to being worth the risk.
I certainly don't mean to sunshine pump as we're a shitshow right now, but we have a lot of key rookies (Lattimore, Marcus Williams, Anzalone, Loewen) and players that are essentially rookies (Kikaha, Rankins, PJ Williams, Onyematta all have under 16 games regular season experience) starting or getting big playing time. Breaux's return will get Crawley/Harris off the field, which will be huge if he returns to rookie form. I want to see how the defense is playing in games 10-16 before I start thinking about firing the defensive coaching staff again.
Payton himself has done a bad job, though. His TO usage at the end of the first half against the Vikings was inexcusable. Two TO's left, using one after the 1st down Vikings play (~3 yard gain) was fine. Using one after the 2nd down play (~4 yard gain) was idiotic. Use it after the third down play. It pretty much gives you the same results in terms of how much time you'll have with the ball before halftime. The only difference is that using it after 2nd encourages them to run on third down instead of passing, but I don't think that advantage is close to being worth the risk.
This post was edited on 9/22/17 at 3:15 pm
Posted on 9/22/17 at 1:40 pm to Mrwhodat
Its painfully obvious that they dont know what they are doing during the draft.
On a side note it doesnt seem that they know what they are doing by bringing Adrian Peterson in and then drafting Kamara.
On a side note it doesnt seem that they know what they are doing by bringing Adrian Peterson in and then drafting Kamara.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 2:19 pm to Mrwhodat
Sad and embarrassing.
The HC is responsible for the teams roster and play on the field.
The HC is responsible for the teams roster and play on the field.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 9:22 pm to Geauxgurt
I think that Payton has become the opposite of Les Miles. I don't even believe that he lets the defensive coordinator call the defense, I think we're seeing Peyton's shitty defense year in year out. Just my two cents.
I think he meddles with the defense and fricks it all up.
When we had a good def coordinator and he trusted him we were pretty good (Greg Williams). After that I think Payton cant let go. He doesn't trust his def coordinator. Williams burned him too bad, lost a few playoffs for us (he blew that 49er playoff game), and got Payton, suspended for a year for the player payment fiasco.
Payton needs to hire a guy like Wade Phillips and let him do his thing!
I think he meddles with the defense and fricks it all up.
When we had a good def coordinator and he trusted him we were pretty good (Greg Williams). After that I think Payton cant let go. He doesn't trust his def coordinator. Williams burned him too bad, lost a few playoffs for us (he blew that 49er playoff game), and got Payton, suspended for a year for the player payment fiasco.
Payton needs to hire a guy like Wade Phillips and let him do his thing!
This post was edited on 9/22/17 at 9:24 pm
Posted on 9/23/17 at 9:23 am to Mrwhodat
quote:
And making sure that we’ve asked the right question, so we know the player can learn and we know the player can fit in this role. And I think that process recently has served us very well.
bullshite. CSP is delusional
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