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Started By
Message
re: Malcolm Butler Instagram: "Nothing changed but the change", removes "Patriots CB" from bio
Posted on 3/24/17 at 12:40 pm to mm2316
Posted on 3/24/17 at 12:40 pm to mm2316
quote:
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anyone ever think about the fact maybe butler is waiting on the saints to give the green light to him to go sign the tender.
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None of us have a clue what's going on at the moment, but I don't see why Butler would be waiting for the Saints to tell him to sign his tender.
well if he signs he is locked in with the pats so I can see where its "possible" butler is waiting for the saints to signal the teams have settled on the trade terms before signing in case he doesn't want to play for the pats for that tendered price.
I doubt that is the case, but it "could be" one of several things hanging that is holding this up.
not saying im agreeing with his view, just saying his view has some reasoning behind it
1
Posted on 3/24/17 at 12:41 pm to LSUZombie
Posted on 3/24/17 at 1:19 pm to keakar
quote:
well if he signs he is locked in with the pats
No, he isn't.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 1:38 pm to mm2316
I think he meant if the trade falls through.
This is why, even though it's "illegal", trade terms are always discussed first before the player even visits the new team.
If there is no trade agreement in place the player and new team are just wasting their time.
This is why, even though it's "illegal", trade terms are always discussed first before the player even visits the new team.
If there is no trade agreement in place the player and new team are just wasting their time.
This post was edited on 3/24/17 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 3/24/17 at 2:01 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
I think he meant if the trade falls through.
Even if our trade falls through, he can still sign the tender and be traded to another team after. It's clear at this point that no team is interested in signing him to an offer sheet and giving their 1st.
quote:
This is why, even though it's "illegal", trade terms are always discussed first before the player even visits the new team.
This isn't a "gotcha" type question, but asking again because I really cannot think of an example- When has a similar situation to this recently?
quote:
If there is no trade agreement in place the player and new team are just wasting their time.
Are you saying that no one ever signs an offer sheet as a RFA?
This post was edited on 3/24/17 at 2:36 pm
Posted on 3/24/17 at 2:50 pm to mm2316
RFAs get traded more often than being signed away. I'll have to look it up but being signed away is extremely rare (as far as 1st and 2nd round tenders go). They've had at least 3 trades since 2005 I believe.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 1:40 am to bonethug0108
I get the feeling butler has decided to wait for the deadline before signing and just see what happens until then, just in case any team decides to get stupid and give up a 1st round pick to make him an offer before the deadline to sign.
when you think about it, there is no down side for him and possible upside to waiting, he knows our offer terms and that they will stand and wont change no matter when he signs.
if any teams steps up to give up their 1st round pick for him, they will understand they have to do better then the saints offer to do that or butler wont sign with them.
waiting for the deadline date is a no lose situation for him, he can get a better contract if any other team wanted to reach and go after him.
in the mean time saints fans go crazy waiting for the april 21st deadline to get closure on this deal. so only 4 more weeks of waiting
when you think about it, there is no down side for him and possible upside to waiting, he knows our offer terms and that they will stand and wont change no matter when he signs.
if any teams steps up to give up their 1st round pick for him, they will understand they have to do better then the saints offer to do that or butler wont sign with them.
waiting for the deadline date is a no lose situation for him, he can get a better contract if any other team wanted to reach and go after him.
in the mean time saints fans go crazy waiting for the april 21st deadline to get closure on this deal. so only 4 more weeks of waiting
Posted on 3/25/17 at 7:18 am to keakar
Maybe the teams cant agree on trade compensation. If the saints wait till a few days before draft and give offer sheet then the pats wouldn't get our number 1 till 2018. Then we would have all of our picks this year. Plus doing this doesn't require Butler to sign his tender. Of course the risk is does he get a better offer or someone else offers a number 1 this year. I don't think either.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 7:20 am to tcr7sport
Of course the one risk I forgot was the pats could math the offer sheet which that wouldn't matter anyway because they would be stuck with his contract not us.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 8:01 am to keakar
He's not waiting for another team to give him an offer. No team is going to sign him to an offer sheet (it would have happened by now) and I doubt the Pats break their handshake deal with us and trade him elsewhere (unless we back out).
He's just waiting for us to offer more guaranteed money. We're waiting for him to take less. The deadline will get it done if someone doesn't get impatient before then.
And sadly it's about 5 weeks of waiting left, not 4.
He's just waiting for us to offer more guaranteed money. We're waiting for him to take less. The deadline will get it done if someone doesn't get impatient before then.
And sadly it's about 5 weeks of waiting left, not 4.
This post was edited on 3/25/17 at 8:09 am
Posted on 3/25/17 at 8:07 am to tcr7sport
quote:
If the saints wait till a few days before draft and give offer sheet then the pats wouldn't get our number 1 till 2018.
That's not true. If we sign him to an offer sheet, no matter when it is (by the dealine of April 21st) then we give up 11 if the Pats don't match.
The issue is the guaranteed money we are offering. If he was okay with that he would have signed his tender already.
So why in the frick would he sign an offer sheet for the same contract he's turning down now?
See how what you're saying makes no sense?
Posted on 3/25/17 at 8:14 am to bonethug0108
Yeah I don't know where that meme got started (I've seen it a bunch), but it's definitely false.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 9:48 am to Fun Bunch
read the article by pat kirwan I think he mentions if the offer sheet is right before draft or after the pats will get the number one in 2018 because they some rule in the nfl
Posted on 3/25/17 at 10:12 am to tcr7sport
Pretty sure that's just not accurate.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 10:33 am to tcr7sport
Well he's wrong and spreading inaccurate info if that's the case.
The whole point of the deadline being before the draft is so the team matching or declining knows EXACTLY what pick they are getting.
It also HAS to be that team's original pick. So we can't trade 11 for say a second and a next year's first and then force the Pat's to take 32. In that case we would become ineligible for signing Butler to an offer sheet.
There's no way to skirt this. If we sign him to an offer sheet it has to be 11 we give up if the Pats don't match.
Edit:
Also the deadline is April 21st for him to sign an offer sheet or sign the Pats tender (if he does neither the Pats can pull the tender and treat him as an exclusive rights free agent meaning they tender him for vet minimum and he can no longer get offers from other teams), so he cannot sign an offer sheet after the draft.
The whole point of the deadline being before the draft is so the team matching or declining knows EXACTLY what pick they are getting.
It also HAS to be that team's original pick. So we can't trade 11 for say a second and a next year's first and then force the Pat's to take 32. In that case we would become ineligible for signing Butler to an offer sheet.
There's no way to skirt this. If we sign him to an offer sheet it has to be 11 we give up if the Pats don't match.
Edit:
Also the deadline is April 21st for him to sign an offer sheet or sign the Pats tender (if he does neither the Pats can pull the tender and treat him as an exclusive rights free agent meaning they tender him for vet minimum and he can no longer get offers from other teams), so he cannot sign an offer sheet after the draft.
This post was edited on 3/25/17 at 10:36 am
Posted on 3/25/17 at 12:37 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
And sadly it's about 5 weeks of waiting left, not 4.
well the article explaining the pats contract offer put to him said he had until April 21st to sign the contract offer sheet or it expires.
so that's what I thought the "reported" signing deadline was
as for the rest, that was just my thinking on what reason he might have not to already have signed.
you can really never say never on another team stepping up at the last minute, very very unlikely yes, but I wouldn't be so sure about it to "absolutely" rule it out.
I never thought they had any differences over the saints contract offer of guaranteed money based on comments both sides made after his visit here, but you are right, that could be the reason I guess.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 2:15 pm to keakar
While he technically has four weeks to sign the tender, both teams have until draft day to make the trade (when the pick(s) would actually be used).
If Butler still refuses the Saints contract even after signing the Pats tender, the Saints would be crazy to trade for him without knowing he'd sign a long term deal.
So that's why I said it could be up to 5 weeks before this is resolved.
And I explained in another thread why this is clearly a contract dispute hold up between the Saints and Butler:
(shorter version leaving out the Pats part)
Butler visits Saints and both sides have a "good time".
Butler has yet to sign his tender so he can be traded.
If Butler was ready he would have signed the tender. He's holding out for more guaranteed money.
If Butler still refuses the Saints contract even after signing the Pats tender, the Saints would be crazy to trade for him without knowing he'd sign a long term deal.
So that's why I said it could be up to 5 weeks before this is resolved.
And I explained in another thread why this is clearly a contract dispute hold up between the Saints and Butler:
(shorter version leaving out the Pats part)
Butler visits Saints and both sides have a "good time".
Butler has yet to sign his tender so he can be traded.
If Butler was ready he would have signed the tender. He's holding out for more guaranteed money.
This post was edited on 3/25/17 at 2:16 pm
Posted on 3/25/17 at 2:15 pm to keakar
ok iam not saying he going to do what I said iam just saying its possible from my earlier post. Everyone is saying that it isn't accurate but that not true. google the article written by chrisdunnells at canalstreetchronciles.com titled nfl cba on malcom butler. and also google the nfl cba contract rules and read article 9 section 2j about restricted free agents compensation. it says exactly what he states in the article. once again iam not saying butler and the saints are holding off on signing offer sheet or tender just saying who knows its possible but also accurate according to cba rules
Posted on 3/25/17 at 2:17 pm to tcr7sport
it wasn't pat kirwan it was chrisdunnels about the following years draft pick
Posted on 3/25/17 at 2:22 pm to tcr7sport
He becomes an Exclusive Rights FA after the 21st. That was the point.
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