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Started By
Message
re: Loomis got a 5 year extension....
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:04 pm to Lester Earl
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:04 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
our best offensive players have been diamonds in the rough. Poor argument. Colston, Moore, Thomas, Graham, our offensive line.
Brees and Payton make everyone on offense better.
We drafted plenty of defense players. Look at the list i just listed
Again, why is this on Loomis?
1
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:08 pm to Patrick O Rly
because he is the GM. They are supposed to evaluate talent. Well, the good ones at least.
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:11 pm to Lester Earl
That's part of their job, yes, but you seem to be giving credit on the hits with our offensive picks to Payton while placing the blame for the misses on defense on Loomis.
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:11 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Posted by Message Lester Earl Loomis got a 5 year extension.... because he is the GM. They are supposed to evaluate talent. Well, the good ones at least.
Yet you totally dismiss that he's created this organizational structure that has brought winning success and a Super Bowl.
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:13 pm to THRILLHO
quote:I've hated where our defense has been for a long time. All I want is a competent defense that doesn't force the offense to score 35 pts every week.
Again, we were arguably the best team in the NFL between 2009-2011. The article you posted was from before this past season. Did you dislike Loomis then? Will you dislike him if we have a defense in the 15-20 range and go 12-4 next season?
The 12-4 record, in a vacuum, is great. But if we get their the same way we got to 13-3 a few years ago, than its not sustainable. Our 2011-2012 offense was they best i've ever seen. They literally had no weaknesses, but even they couldn't "Arena League" their way to a Superbowl.
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:18 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
but you seem to be giving credit on the hits with our offensive picks to Payton while placing the blame for the misses on defense on Loomis.
im giving credit to Payton and the system that masks any deficiencies in top level talent.
Like I said im not even blaming Loomis. The fact of the matter is our defensive drafts have sucked. If Loomis has input, he's doing a horrible job. If he doesn't have input, id much rather someone that knew talent that money counting. I dont see whats so hard to understand
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:23 pm to Lester Earl
Fair enough, but I'm glad we have him. Talent evaluation and cap management are different skill sets, and I'm sure there aren't many GM's that are great at both.
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:33 pm to Patrick O Rly
4 defensive coordinators in 8 years, 4 different staff inputs... I guess that's mickeys fault. A huge part of being a great manager is knowing when to rely upon your support staff. There is not one ounce of blame that should be on Mickey shoulder that shouldn't be equal to Payton's as the head coach.
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:41 pm to Chad504boy
if Payton retired tomorrow, would you be confident Loomis could restructure this team?
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:43 pm to Lester Earl
quote:It is really painful to look at that horrible list of players.
2002
Charles Grant 1st gave us some good years
James Allen 3rd- bust
Keyou Craver-4th bust
Mel Mitchell- 5th bust
Derrius Gilmore 7th- bust
2003
Jonathan Sullivan-worst pick in Saints history
Cie Grant- 3rd worthless
Melvin Williams -5th did he even make the team?
2004
Will Smith- gave us some good years.
Courtney Watson- 2nd RD huge bust
Rodney Leslie- 5th RD worthless
Colby Bockwoldt- 7th good ST player
2005
Josh BUllucks- 2nd horrible player
Alfred Fincher- 3rd RD horrible player
Jason Jefferson 6th rd dont think made team
Jimmy Verndon-7th didnt make team
2006
Roman Harper- 2nd league average safety, decent pick
Rob Ninkovich-5th good player now
josh LAy 6th didnt make team i believe
2007
Usama Young- 3rd garbage
David Jones -5th garbage
Marvin Mitchell 7th- really good value for what he was
2008
Sed Ellis-1st serviceable, but not what you want out of a top 10 pick
Tracy Porter 2nd- prob 2nd best DEF pick in his era. Injury prone though
Demarrio Pressley- 5th hyped, no production
2009
Malcon Jenkins-1st serviceable, didnt live up to 14th pick status
Chip Vaughn 4th- worthless
STanley Arnoux 4th worthless
2010
Patrick RObinson- 1st serviceable NFL player
Al Woods 4th didnt even make team
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:46 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Posted by Message Lester Earl Loomis got a 5 year extension.... if Payton retired tomorrow, would you be confident Loomis could restructure this team?
He's certainly earned the opportunity to.
If drew retired tomorrow, you confident Payton will have the same offensive success?
This post was edited on 1/28/13 at 9:47 pm
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:49 pm to Chad504boy
i like his track record. That's all I can go on.
Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:51 pm to Lester Earl
Mickeys track record on hiring head coaches is just as stable. Weird how its Loomis who put his neck on the line on Drew's 60 million dollar original contract.
Posted on 1/28/13 at 11:04 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Get a fricking GM that can evaluate talent. Thats way more important than counting beans.
I agree. My ideal GM is someone who knows the "Belichick-system", or some other roster-building system, and can build a roster like a boss. He also needs to be able to count beans, too, but, bean counting is only part of the job.
I'm not aware that Loomis has any kind of expertise on any sort of roster-building system or philosophy.
However, if both CSP and Tom Benson think highly of Loomis, then, they must know better than I what's best for this franchise.
Posted on 1/28/13 at 11:06 pm to lil 7thward
quote:
It is really painful to look at that horrible list of players
Something is very wrong with the way that this Franchise evaluate talent on Defense. It's been bad for many years now.
Posted on 1/29/13 at 8:13 am to eyeran
quote:I agree completely. Not to mention Robert Meachem in the first round, resigning Colston before Carl Nicks, I'm not sure what Loomis has done to earn all the Saints fans admiration of him.
I know you've never been a fan of Loomis and i've defended him a lot but I agree with you here.
7 years to put together a decent defense and he's been a total failure. Multiple major scandals.
Posted on 1/29/13 at 8:20 am to alajones
quote:
Not to mention Robert Meachem in the first round,
Probably not Loomis' call, but he still turned out to be a big play guy. If we don't draft him, does someone else strip the ball away in Washington? Does someone else score a TD in the final minutes?
quote:
resigning Colston before Carl Nicks
Colston wanted to take a discount. He really didn't want to test the market. Nicks wanted to get paid, and he got paid. What exactly was Loomis suppose to do there?
Posted on 1/29/13 at 8:30 am to Patrick O Rly
I'm not arguing about Robert Meachem. I'm right, I was right in 2006, and everyone knows it. Surely you aren't trying to make an argument that a couple of big games was worth a first round pick.
I don't think Loomis is all that horrible. I think our defensive draft picks have been shameful, but we can't not give him credit for our offensive talent that has over acheived plus some very good FA pick ups.
I'm on the fence about firing him, but I surely wouldn't have resigned for 5 more years. If I were Benson, Loomis would be on double secret probation right now.
quote:Well so many other teams were beating his door down weren't they? Come on, we all knew Nicks was the next most important to resign after Brees. Hell, we could have franchised him. Colston wasn't going anywhere, and even if he did, big whoop. Brees makes mediocre WRs look awesome. I've being saying for years now we don't have any real scary WRs that make defensive coordinators worry.
Colston wanted to take a discount. He really didn't want to test the market
I don't think Loomis is all that horrible. I think our defensive draft picks have been shameful, but we can't not give him credit for our offensive talent that has over acheived plus some very good FA pick ups.
I'm on the fence about firing him, but I surely wouldn't have resigned for 5 more years. If I were Benson, Loomis would be on double secret probation right now.
This post was edited on 1/29/13 at 8:37 am
Posted on 1/29/13 at 8:40 am to alajones
quote:
I'm not arguing about Robert Meachem. I'm right, I was right in 2006, and everyone knows it. Surely you aren't trying to make an argument that a couple of big games was worth a first round pick.
If we don't win that game, do we get the #1 seed that year? I'll make that draft pick every time.
quote:
Well so many other teams were beating his door down weren't they?
No one got the chance to talk to him. I don't think he was gonna be a hot commodity, but I'm sure he could have gotten a better deal elsewhere.
quote:
Come on, we all knew Nicks was the next most important to resign after Brees. Hell, we could have franchised him.
And that's the only way we could have kept him, but that would have required us to sign Brees before FA, but as everyone knows now, Brees was holding out for the big pay day. We still got a viable replacement in Grubbs.
quote:
Colston wasn't going anywhere, and even if he did, big whoop. Brees makes mediocre WRs look awesome. I've being saying for years now we don't have any real scary WRs that make defensive coordinators worry.
You're really under selling Colston. He's consistently produced year after year. I tell you one thing, teams don't like seeing Colston in the redzone.
quote:
I don't think Loomis is all that horrible. I think our defensive draft picks have been shameful, but we can't not give him credit for our offensive talent that has over acheived plus some very good FA pick ups.
Oh dear lord. Is this a typo?
quote:
I'm on the fence about firing him, but I surely wouldn't have resigned for 5 more years. If I were Benson, Loomis would be on double secret probation right now.
You need to unrustle your jimmies stat.
This post was edited on 1/29/13 at 8:42 am
Posted on 1/29/13 at 8:48 am to Patrick O Rly
Pretty sure the Defense that won a Super Bowl in 2009, Mickey Loomis signed, drafted, or traded for every player on that D.
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