- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Let's discuss Vaccaro and D. Harris a little more
Posted on 9/20/17 at 4:36 pm
Posted on 9/20/17 at 4:36 pm
Pretty good video a guy posted on a website I would get flamed for naming. If you go back and look at the Vikings game, 1 for sure, but I believe 2 plays that looked bad on Harris were Vaccaro not staying in his zone. The big play to Cooks down at the 1 yard line last game that Harris was covering was actually due to Vaccaro leaving the middle zone open, Harris was supposed to be outside the hash but stayed chasing Cooks due to Vaccaro completely freaking out once the play started.
Watching these games and M. Williams, Lattimore, seem to be really legit players and are not only good skill wise, but know their assignments. PJ Williams overall has played decent, but it's a play good 99% of the time, and give up one big play in each game. I like his play overall though, especially with little experience. I'm to the point I can't decide who would be better in Vaccaro's spot between Bush and Bell. Bell is more athletic but he seems to bite on play action and gets confused some also. Bush knows his job as a safety, but not versatile. I'm leaning on preferring Bush in the SS spot.
I would say Vaccaro is the direct cause of about 3 TDs and a couple other big plays the first 2 weeks. I have no problem with the man to man coverage on Gronk and him losing some 3rd down battles as it was tight coverage. He just can't understand zone concepts, and that's a really important role for a safety. This video is pretty good at pointing some things out.
Youtube
ETA: About 14:30 for Vaccaro screw up with Cooks
Watching these games and M. Williams, Lattimore, seem to be really legit players and are not only good skill wise, but know their assignments. PJ Williams overall has played decent, but it's a play good 99% of the time, and give up one big play in each game. I like his play overall though, especially with little experience. I'm to the point I can't decide who would be better in Vaccaro's spot between Bush and Bell. Bell is more athletic but he seems to bite on play action and gets confused some also. Bush knows his job as a safety, but not versatile. I'm leaning on preferring Bush in the SS spot.
I would say Vaccaro is the direct cause of about 3 TDs and a couple other big plays the first 2 weeks. I have no problem with the man to man coverage on Gronk and him losing some 3rd down battles as it was tight coverage. He just can't understand zone concepts, and that's a really important role for a safety. This video is pretty good at pointing some things out.
Youtube
ETA: About 14:30 for Vaccaro screw up with Cooks
This post was edited on 9/20/17 at 4:40 pm
4
Posted on 9/20/17 at 5:07 pm to windshieldman
Vaccaro might just be a great athlete but bad football player
Posted on 9/20/17 at 5:20 pm to hendersonshands
He played instinctive last year and rookie year. Honestly, it tells me that Adderall suspension was legit. It's a completely different player
Posted on 9/20/17 at 5:37 pm to hendersonshands
He's very good in run support but he seems to be consistently 1/2 second to a second late anytime he's supposed to be in coverage.
Posted on 9/20/17 at 7:10 pm to windshieldman
His strength was never as a deep safety, and it's on the staff as trying to treat him as such.
It's like at the end of GW's tenure when he started using Harper as a deep safety/one on one cover guy when that wasn't his strength. It eventually cost us that playoff game.
Vaccaro is very good at what he is very good at. Why keep trying to force him into something EVERYONE knows he isn't that good at?
It's like at the end of GW's tenure when he started using Harper as a deep safety/one on one cover guy when that wasn't his strength. It eventually cost us that playoff game.
Vaccaro is very good at what he is very good at. Why keep trying to force him into something EVERYONE knows he isn't that good at?
Posted on 9/20/17 at 7:29 pm to windshieldman
"aw man, this is tough on me"
Posted on 9/20/17 at 9:08 pm to Laaz2750
I mean vaccaro certainly isn't great but how much blame can you really give guy for being looked off by tom Brady staring at gronkowski?
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:11 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
Vaccaro is very good at what he is very good at. Why keep trying to force him into something EVERYONE knows he isn't that good at?
Because he is a veteran. This team is extremely young. They havent played together at all.
Look at our secondary. PJ Williams has played 3 games? before this season. Lattimore and Williams = 0
Harris was UDFA last year.
What they are trying to do is find out what each player is good at. They already know what they have in Lattimore. They put Vacarro at safety to help out PJ but he cant cover a WR. They knew that but they were hoping his veteran presence wouldnt hurt. Look for him to start playing in the box from now on.
Lattimore might be out this week, so we will have Harris/Crawley? on one side and PJ on the other.
It looks like they are trying to find the strengths and weaknesses of the players to put them in a position. They are experimenting because the rookies dont get the practice time they used to when entering the league. The CBA saw to that. They are all behind and forced to learn on the fly. It will be painful to watch as this team plays defense with 6 of 11 guys that dont have experience.
Rankins 2nd year, He played only 9 games last year. No Fairley to help this year.
Onyemata just started playing football 4 years ago
Anzalone played how many games in College? He is a starter for us.
Lattimore rookie playing great in man, but in zone it will take some time for him to get up to speed.
M. Williams starting FS another with no experience
PJ Williams 2 years on IR
D. Harris no experience
Crawley was thrown to the wolves last year but he should be getting playing time.
Moore is probably out for awhile with a torn pec.
The defense wont suddenly get better tomorrow. It will take more experience.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 9:42 am to jmcwhrter
quote:
mean vaccaro certainly isn't great but how much blame can you really give guy for being looked off by tom Brady staring at gronkowski?
He completely left his zone. It's one thing to be looked off by 2-3 steps, it's another to completely abandon your entire zone.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:08 am to windshieldman
I'm not necessarily a Vaccaro hater. But a safety who is good in the box but not good deep is like a good running QB who can't throw. Being good in zone coverage and deep coverage is vital to that position, strong or free. He gets fooled too easily and also bites on play action almost every single time. There is a reason we've had to utilize 3 safety sets, it's to keep 2 real safeties and use him up to the line.
It also affects our run defense. Most teams can have a front 7 with 3 REAL LBs, whereas over the last couple years we've had 2 LBs, and Vaccaro. Vaccaro cannot be a LB. He can be good as the 8th man coming up but would never be a good true LB and take on O lineman or FBs play after play. The bottom line is he is a veteran and once the ball is snapped he gets fooled too easily. I think he has heart and wants to do good, but it just hasn't worked out aside from a few splash plays here and there.
He is an average man cover guy and a really good tackler, that's about it. He has made the CBs look bad the last several years, or look worse than they already do I should say. Again, I think Bell is probably a better overall safety, but still not sure he is ready. Maybe he is, I just feel like Bush is the better player to be in the SS spot right now. Right now, we just need someone who won't make mistakes in the back end.
It also affects our run defense. Most teams can have a front 7 with 3 REAL LBs, whereas over the last couple years we've had 2 LBs, and Vaccaro. Vaccaro cannot be a LB. He can be good as the 8th man coming up but would never be a good true LB and take on O lineman or FBs play after play. The bottom line is he is a veteran and once the ball is snapped he gets fooled too easily. I think he has heart and wants to do good, but it just hasn't worked out aside from a few splash plays here and there.
He is an average man cover guy and a really good tackler, that's about it. He has made the CBs look bad the last several years, or look worse than they already do I should say. Again, I think Bell is probably a better overall safety, but still not sure he is ready. Maybe he is, I just feel like Bush is the better player to be in the SS spot right now. Right now, we just need someone who won't make mistakes in the back end.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:10 am to windshieldman
Honestly no one knows the play call but Allen.
We can guess he was supposed to be in zone, but on the Cooks vs. Harris play Harris was 100% in man. He couldn't see behind him to know Vaccaro "left his zone". He played it like man the whole way and got beat.
Maybe Vaccaro was in cover 2, or maybe he was in cover 1 and was rolling to the flood side as he should. We don't know.
But the one thing I do 100% know is Harris is getting beat left and right in man, and he did not redirect the receiver inside on the td pass vs. the Vikes (that's universal coverage rules for the outside corner in flat coverage to push to outside receiver inside, so either Allen isn't teaching it or Harris completely fricked up looking into the backfield for the run). Vaccaro did also bite on the run, but even if he didn't Harris fricked up and Vaccaro still likely had no shot at stopping it.
We can guess he was supposed to be in zone, but on the Cooks vs. Harris play Harris was 100% in man. He couldn't see behind him to know Vaccaro "left his zone". He played it like man the whole way and got beat.
Maybe Vaccaro was in cover 2, or maybe he was in cover 1 and was rolling to the flood side as he should. We don't know.
But the one thing I do 100% know is Harris is getting beat left and right in man, and he did not redirect the receiver inside on the td pass vs. the Vikes (that's universal coverage rules for the outside corner in flat coverage to push to outside receiver inside, so either Allen isn't teaching it or Harris completely fricked up looking into the backfield for the run). Vaccaro did also bite on the run, but even if he didn't Harris fricked up and Vaccaro still likely had no shot at stopping it.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:13 am to bonethug0108
quote:
Honestly no one knows the play call but Allen.
Well, that is true. I'm just going by what a few analysts have said and what it appeared to look like to me by what the other guys in the secondary were doing. Also the TD against the Vikes, Vaccaro admitted it was his fault. Nobody would truly know, I don't think Harris should be in there either, at the most, he should be in the nickel, imo. PJ seems to be better suited for a boundary guy anyways. Both big plays PJ has given up this year he was playing in the nickel.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:00 am to windshieldman
Never been a V fan but I'll tell you the issue is not him it's coaching. He's shown he's capable when played correctly. Much like a lot of this defense, people are put into positions not made for them to succeed. The scheme is fricking awful and actually plays to the weaknesses of the defense. He's a prime example which is why I said before they picked his extra year option up why did they bother? If you're not going to use a player correctly let him go. Allen AND Payton are absolutely clueless. I believe every word Ryan said about Payton getting his hands dirty in the defense because several DCs later and 10 years you still see the same shite. It's time for Payton to go. And I'll flip a fricking table if Loomis isn't sent packing with him too. That Haslett era castoff that somehow maintained a job in the Saints organization since I was a kid.
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 11:05 am
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:22 am to deuce985
quote:
Never been a V fan but I'll tell you the issue is not him it's coaching. He's shown he's capable when played correctly
Cover 2 is a concept most DBs understand. All teams run some cover 2 or cover 3, even teams that are man coverage do it more than you think. If asking a SAFETY to play deep in a cover 2, is too much to ask, then we have a problem. If your CB (Moore) drops back 30 yards and towards the hashes, in a cover 2, when he should be towards the sideline and shallow, we have a problem.
The rookies aren't making these mistakes, its veterans. As I've said, KV has been the direct cause of at least 2 TDs, and a big play to Cooks to the 1 yard line. My and other's interpretations on those plays could very well be wrong, who knows. DA isn't asking his players to do anything different than any other DC does. If KV is only good at being at the line of scrimmage then he doesn't need to be on the field.
Even Harper, although very limited in coverage skills, at least, for the most part, understood to stay in his zone. This has nothing to do with ability, KV lacks the mental part of being a safety. There are many safeties out there with less athletic ability who do their job much better.
I don't have a problem with DAs scheme, people put way to much into all that. The players have to be able to perform and do their job. You can have the perfect "scheme" but if one player in the secondary loses control of their assignment, most QBs will exploit it, and do it quickly and easily. Teams are exploiting the hell out of KV right now.
ETA: I'll add, I don't have a problem with someone just getting beat. If you get beat man to man but make them work for it, or a QB throws a laser right in your zone and you can't knock it down, that's understandable. I just have a problem with players, mostly KV, who completely abandon their assignment, and a big play is the result. For instance, the 3rd down receptions Gronk got on KV, no issue with those plays. Not much else you can expect from that.
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 11:31 am
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:59 am to hendersonshands
quote:
Vaccaro might just be a great athlete but bad football player
Sounds like Tebucky Jones.
Page 1 of 1
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News