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Started By
Message
How bad was the defense?
Posted on 1/16/13 at 10:15 am
Posted on 1/16/13 at 10:15 am
We know it was atrocious to start. Eventually there were some sparks here n there- some signs of life. Still, it was epically terrible.
How bad? Look at these numbers I dredged up...
Passing D
Amazingly only the 5th worst passer rating against the defense at 93.8. How bad is that? It's like every game being against somewhere between Matt Schaub (90.7) & Drew Brees (96.3)!
Eaten up by long balls: Solid last place at giving up 8.1yds for every pass attempt! Only one NFL QB hit that high this year- RG3. Avg NFL QBs are a full yard less.
Run D
Solid last place giving up 5.2ypc and 147.6 yards per game. What kind of running back can do that? There were 5 players who averaged over 5.2ypc. But none could do it every week. Only AP & Alfred Morris averaged over 100yds per game. 147yds per would be a RB shattering the alltime season record by 200 yds. Put it this way... it was like AP was running every week with another guy getting a few yards per game.
After this debacle getting back to '09 or '11 defense levels will be a great improvement. The bar has been lowered so far though that improvement almost has to occur.
How bad? Look at these numbers I dredged up...
Passing D
Amazingly only the 5th worst passer rating against the defense at 93.8. How bad is that? It's like every game being against somewhere between Matt Schaub (90.7) & Drew Brees (96.3)!
Eaten up by long balls: Solid last place at giving up 8.1yds for every pass attempt! Only one NFL QB hit that high this year- RG3. Avg NFL QBs are a full yard less.
Run D
Solid last place giving up 5.2ypc and 147.6 yards per game. What kind of running back can do that? There were 5 players who averaged over 5.2ypc. But none could do it every week. Only AP & Alfred Morris averaged over 100yds per game. 147yds per would be a RB shattering the alltime season record by 200 yds. Put it this way... it was like AP was running every week with another guy getting a few yards per game.
After this debacle getting back to '09 or '11 defense levels will be a great improvement. The bar has been lowered so far though that improvement almost has to occur.
8
Posted on 1/16/13 at 10:24 am to blueslover
quote:
5.2ypc and 147.6 yards per g
That is just depressing. If I were Payton I would replace that picture of him in the training facilty with the same size print out of those stats.
Posted on 1/16/13 at 10:29 am to blueslover
How did we ever win seven?
Posted on 1/16/13 at 10:31 am to Cajun Invasion
It was historic.
Posted on 1/16/13 at 11:08 am to Hugo Stiglitz
quote:
How did we ever win seven?
Posted on 1/16/13 at 11:15 am to Hugo Stiglitz
I think every team had at least one big play on us, but the defence did clamp down in some games after the big play.
Posted on 1/16/13 at 11:29 am to blueslover
In all my time watching football I have never witnessed a defense as bad as the Saints D was this season. We had a joke in my house that if it was third and longer than six yards that they should just give the opposing team the first down. Because the D would give it up everytime. You had to almost try to be that bad.
Posted on 1/16/13 at 11:36 am to blueslover
the hardest thing to watch for me was the run defense. I mean, lets be real about the pass defense. With the rules slanted towards the offense these days, you will always see a shite load of passing yards it seems.
We need faster LB's on the outside. Carolina in particular killed us running to the outside. Bad angles to the ball and missed tackles everywhere. There is nothing more demoralizing to a defense than to get run on like that.
We need faster LB's on the outside. Carolina in particular killed us running to the outside. Bad angles to the ball and missed tackles everywhere. There is nothing more demoralizing to a defense than to get run on like that.
Posted on 1/16/13 at 11:41 am to blueslover
quote:
Passing D
I think that the secondary play has dropped off ever since Dennis Allen left. I mean sure there was the bad game against the Seahawks in the playoffs in 2010 but other than that disaster I thought the secondary wasn't all that bad.
Remember when the secondary was depleted by injuries when we played the Steelers that same year? You had guys like Leigh Torrence picking off passes late to seal the victory. It just seemed like Allen got more out of that unit.
Posted on 1/16/13 at 12:05 pm to blueslover
Does everyone here pretty much agree the DC was not the problem and it is clearly a personnel issue?
Posted on 1/16/13 at 12:48 pm to The Mick
I can agree with that. But will Saints fans have the patience to let Spags rebuild the D? Can he rebuild the D into a respectabnle unit? And can it be done while still having a great offense?
This post was edited on 1/16/13 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 1/16/13 at 1:03 pm to SmellslikeKevinBacon
quote:
Can he rebuild the D into a respectabnle unit?
as long as patrick robinson, malcolm jenkins, and to an extent roman harper aren't playing I can see it done.
I assume we fix our line or most of our front-7 issue this year, which should improve play by the db's. Hopefully.
Posted on 1/16/13 at 1:54 pm to blueslover
quote:
How bad was the defense?
Pretty fricking bad.
Posted on 1/16/13 at 2:04 pm to blueslover
Posted on 1/16/13 at 3:58 pm to baytiger
adding the wang take if ya missed it-
Whether or not you choose to accept the notion that 7042 total yards allowed — most in NFL history, and 454 points allowed — most since the 1980 Saints, legitimately qualifies the 2012 Saints defense as "THE WORST IN NFL HISTORY!!!" is largely irrelevant. What matters is that it was inarguably shitty. Incredibly shitty. Historically shitty. Mindbogglingly shitty. Unacceptably shitty. Far more shitty than last year's was. Shittier than any Gary Gibbs defense. Shittier than any Rick Venturi defense. Shittier than any defense featuring Jason David, Kevin Kaesviharn, Josh Bullocks, Tebucky Jones, Jonathan Sullivan, Rob Kelly or Colby Bockwoldt. It might not have been the single worst defense in NFL history, if you say so, but it was damn sure close enough.
And perhaps most importantly, it was every bit as shitty in week 17 as it was in week 1.
922 total yards and 75 points allowed in weeks 1 & 2, 976 total yards and 75 points allowed in weeks 16 & 17. (No, that's not "comprehensive analysis" and not the end-all, it's just an illustrative anecdote.)
In retrospect, it seems pretty clear that the midseason spasm of relative competence (using the term very loosely) that got everybody all excited was little more than a temporary "hot" streak at best, and pretty much a complete illusion at worst. That shutout of Tampa is the very definition of an outlier. This defense is no better than it was in September. And it's not just a case of LYING STATS(!!!) making it look worse than it was. I watched every snap of every game this year, and the stats tell the absolute truth. It was every bit as bad as the stats suggest.
Whether or not you choose to accept the notion that 7042 total yards allowed — most in NFL history, and 454 points allowed — most since the 1980 Saints, legitimately qualifies the 2012 Saints defense as "THE WORST IN NFL HISTORY!!!" is largely irrelevant. What matters is that it was inarguably shitty. Incredibly shitty. Historically shitty. Mindbogglingly shitty. Unacceptably shitty. Far more shitty than last year's was. Shittier than any Gary Gibbs defense. Shittier than any Rick Venturi defense. Shittier than any defense featuring Jason David, Kevin Kaesviharn, Josh Bullocks, Tebucky Jones, Jonathan Sullivan, Rob Kelly or Colby Bockwoldt. It might not have been the single worst defense in NFL history, if you say so, but it was damn sure close enough.
And perhaps most importantly, it was every bit as shitty in week 17 as it was in week 1.
922 total yards and 75 points allowed in weeks 1 & 2, 976 total yards and 75 points allowed in weeks 16 & 17. (No, that's not "comprehensive analysis" and not the end-all, it's just an illustrative anecdote.)
In retrospect, it seems pretty clear that the midseason spasm of relative competence (using the term very loosely) that got everybody all excited was little more than a temporary "hot" streak at best, and pretty much a complete illusion at worst. That shutout of Tampa is the very definition of an outlier. This defense is no better than it was in September. And it's not just a case of LYING STATS(!!!) making it look worse than it was. I watched every snap of every game this year, and the stats tell the absolute truth. It was every bit as bad as the stats suggest.
Posted on 1/16/13 at 7:05 pm to blueslover
quote:
In retrospect, it seems pretty clear that the midseason spasm of relative competence (using the term very loosely) that got everybody all excited was little more than a temporary "hot" streak at best, and pretty much a complete illusion at worst. That shutout of Tampa is the very definition of an outlier. This defense is no better than it was in September. And it's not just a case of LYING STATS(!!!) making it look worse than it was. I watched every snap of every game this year, and the stats tell the absolute truth. It was every bit as bad as the stats suggest.
Some of this has to fall on Zod/Spags.
We know the personnel did not fit his D but apparently he didn't.
If the Saints D this coming year is not at least somewhere near the middle he needs to get the axe.
Posted on 1/16/13 at 7:44 pm to The Mick
quote:
Does everyone here pretty much agree the DC was not the problem and it is clearly a personnel issue?
no. gregg williams had the same players and at least put up a respectable defense.
Posted on 1/16/13 at 8:37 pm to diat150
My biggest problem is that Spags continued to play Ellis over Hicks.
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