Started By
Message
locked post

Goodell's Letters to the Suspended Players-Same Ol' Shite

Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:23 pm
Posted by kclsufan
Show Me
Member since Jun 2008
12092 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:23 pm
LINK

By far the most detailed explanation we've gotten from the league thus far.
quote:

“In my recent meetings with the players and their counsel, the players addressed the allegations and had an opportunity to tell their side of the story,” Goodell also wrote. “In those meetings, the players confirmed many of the key facts disclosed in our investigation, most particularly that the program offered cash rewards for ‘cart-offs,’ that players were encouraged to ‘crank up the John Deere tractor’ and have their opponents carted off the field, and that rewards were offered and paid for plays that resulted in opposing players having to leave the field of play.”

quote:

In a letter to Smith, Commissioner Goodell said:
“At our meeting in September, you confirmed that you expressed approval of the program when it was first presented to you by Coach Williams. You also confirmed that you provided money to the program pool both at the beginning of the season and again during the playoffs. I understand that you deny that anyone intended to inflict injury on any opposing player. Even in the face of repeated appeals to ‘crank up the John Deere tractor and cart the guy off,’ you and others now claim that the objective was instead merely to ‘knock the wind out’ of your opponents, requiring them to leave the game for only a play or two. From the standpoint of player safety, fair competition, and the integrity of the game, the issues with which I am concerned today, this kind of after-the-fact explanation is little more than wordplay that, in my judgment as Commissioner, offers no basis on which to excuse conduct that does not belong in professional football..."

quote:

Commissioner Goodell wrote to Vilma:
“At our meeting, you confirmed that cart-offs and knockouts were part of a broader program in place among the Saints’ defensive players. You confirmed that these terms referred to plays in which an opposing player has to leave the game for one or more plays. You confirmed that, as Coach Vitt testified, an opposing player’s need for smelling salts under a trainer’s care was a consequence of the kind that the program sought to achieve and for which players were offered cash rewards from the incentive pool.
“I also find that you engaged in conduct detrimental by offering a substantial financial incentive to any member of the defensive unit who knocked Brett Favre out of the Saints’ 2009 NFC playoff game against the Vikings. (There is also credible evidence that you made a similar pledge regarding Kurt Warner in the immediately preceding playoff game against the Cardinals, but whether you made multiple pledges of that kind does not matter for purposes of the discipline that I have decided to impose.)
Both Coach Williams and Mr. [Mike] Cerullo have submitted statements under oath attesting to the fact that you made such an offer at a pre-game meeting of the Saints’ defensive unit. I have personally met with both men and have had an opportunity to assess their credibility. I am not persuaded by any suggestion that either Mr. Williams or Mr. Cerullo had an incentive to testify falsely, under penalty of perjury, about such conduct by you or by any other player. With respect to Coach Williams, you and he have repeatedly spoken highly of each other, and nobody has identified any reason why he would make false charges against the Saints or you in particular...

Equally important, neither Mr. Williams nor Mr. Cerullo was made aware of the substance of the information provided by the other in the investigation; as one example, each independently volunteered to investigators that the bounty that you pledged with respect to Mr. Favre was in the specific amount of $10,000.

“Furthermore, Coach [Joe] Vitt recalled that players made a number of pledges at that particular meeting and that the meeting ‘got out of hand.’ Mr. Fujita informed me that he believes that players made pledges of payments for ‘big plays’ at that meeting. Those statements support the written declarations, made under penalty of perjury, by Coach Williams and Mr. Cerullo about the events of that evening. In contrast, your statement that nothing out of the ordinary happened and that no pledges were made by anyone at that meeting is inconsistent with the information provided by other players and is simply not persuasive.
In addition, as you know, in early 2010 a Vikings player informed Coach Childress that a Saints player had told him that a bounty had been placed on Mr. Favre. There is also video evidence that a Saints player said; ‘Give me my money’ immediately after Coach Vitt told the defensive unit (incorrectly) that Mr. Favre’s leg had been broken and that he would not be returning to the game.”

Bottom line, Williams and Cerullo are unimpeachable witnesses to be believed because they gave sworn testimony. All the players who also filed sworn testimony are liars and not to be believed.

I'll be interested to hear what Ginsberg has to say about all this.







This post was edited on 10/9/12 at 7:44 pm
Posted by LSUZombie
A Cemetery Near You
Member since Apr 2008
28875 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:26 pm to
I'll be so glad when this season is over and this embarrassment is behind us.

Seriously. It's getting to the point where I really don't care anymore. Players need to just drop it and let time move on. I'm sure Vilma won't, so whatever
Posted by saintsfan92612
Taiwan
Member since Oct 2008
28842 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:27 pm to
NFL spindoctors are at it again
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
58089 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:29 pm to
Still doesn't make sense to me that we had this horrible bounty program going on and yet there were so few "cart offs" and much fewer than average personal fouls by the Saints.
Posted by kclsufan
Show Me
Member since Jun 2008
12092 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:31 pm to
Posted by MoreOrLes
Member since Nov 2008
19472 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:34 pm to
Goodell got what he wanted

F ed Payton
F ed the players he wanted to
F ed all the Saints Fans

F ed at least this season and may impact our Sbowl window.


I truly hope he in some way possible he loses his job. However make no mistake unless he costs the the owners money he will remain.

I wish the fans were not getting screwed.
Posted by saintsfan92612
Taiwan
Member since Oct 2008
28842 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:34 pm to
Posted by MoreOrLes
Member since Nov 2008
19472 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:35 pm to
quote:

yet there were so few "cart offs" and much fewer than average personal fouls by the Saints.



I have said this from the beginning. Either its BS or the REFS sucked
Posted by kclsufan
Show Me
Member since Jun 2008
12092 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:35 pm to
And just like that, here's Ginsberg's response:

LINK

quote:

Statement from Peter Ginsberg, Vilma's lawyer (quite long): Commissioner Goodell has crafted a “revised punishment” that continues his previous grossly misplaced interpretation of the “evidence.” What the Commissioner did today is not justice, nor just. The suspension has the fingerprints of lawyers trying to fit a square peg into a round hole to appease an Appeals Panel decision ordering the Commissioner to pay attention to his authority under the CBA. Someone needs to tell the Commissioner directly that his duties also include being true to the evidence, to fundamental notions of due process and to the integrity of the game. That time hopefully will come soon.

Rather than fairly and impartially evaluate the evidence, the Commissioner instead has wrapped his arms around the architect of pay-for-performance programs, Gregg Williams, and attributes Williams’ inflammatory language and bizarre slide shows not to Williams but to the players Williams coached.

Jonathan Vilma did not offer a bounty or any incentive to any teammate to injure an opposing player. Commissioner Goodell has now called every one of the dozen or more players and coaches a “liar” who has played the games with Jonathan and been in the locker room with Jonathan and who has sworn under oath to that fact. And to make matters worse, the Commissioner blatantly ignores other evidence that shows Jonathan did not do what the Commissioner, again, accuses him of doing. As but one example, Jonathan’s bank records show that he did not withdraw $10,000 from his account at any time during the 2009 playoffs (or at any other time), the time period when the Commissioner claims Jonathan offered that amount of money as a bounty on Kurt Warner and Brett Favre. Consistent with the Commissioner’s disregard of the evidence, he did not even request to see the bank records showing this fact.

As another example, in the sworn statements of Williams and Mike Cerullo, the people the Commissioner found “credible,” Cerullo swore under oath that he turned Jonathan’s $10,000 over to Williams after the Warner game when no one “earned the bounty,” and before the Favre game. Williams swears he never received any money from Cerullo or anyone else. Commissioner Goodell has further damaged Jonathan’s reputation, compromised his career, and cast an unfair cloud over a fine and decent man. It is unfortunate that the process exhibited by the NFL has had no decency.
Posted by saintsfan92612
Taiwan
Member since Oct 2008
28842 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:39 pm to
quote:

Cerullo swore under oath that he turned Jonathan’s $10,000 over to Williams after the Warner game when no one “earned the bounty,” and before the Favre game. Williams swears he never received any money from Cerullo or anyone else.


Sounds legit!
Posted by Hoodoo Man
Sunshine Pumping most days.
Member since Oct 2011
31637 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:44 pm to
Bottom five in injuries caused.
Posted by MoreOrLes
Member since Nov 2008
19472 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:45 pm to
Good

i hope Vilma wins big.

Posted by Patrick O Rly
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
41187 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:48 pm to
quote:

As another example, in the sworn statements of Williams and Mike Cerullo, the people the Commissioner found “credible,” Cerullo swore under oath that he turned Jonathan’s $10,000 over to Williams after the Warner game when no one “earned the bounty,” and before the Favre game.


So, according to Cerullo, no one earned a bounty when Warner actually got knocked out of the game?

If and when this makes it to court, it will be ripped to shreds.

Posted by saintsfan92612
Taiwan
Member since Oct 2008
28842 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:49 pm to
That is what I am confused about.

Leinart actually played a series against the Saints. Jackson never sniffed the field.
Posted by kclsufan
Show Me
Member since Jun 2008
12092 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:52 pm to
quote:

That is what I am confused about.

Leinart actually played a series against the Saints. Jackson never sniffed the field.

Yes, but they were talking about cart-offs and cranking up the John Deere tractor.

OH THE HUMANITY!
Posted by BilJ
Member since Sep 2003
158721 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 7:58 pm to
So because you're sick of it the players should just take a completely unjust bullshite suspension right up the arse? You're a lying son of a bitch if you say you wouldn't put up the same fight if you were in their shoes
Posted by John McClane
Member since Apr 2010
36666 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 8:00 pm to
An exercise in gross mischaracterization to fit what he deems to be the law.
Posted by BeachDude022
Premium Elite Platinum TD Member
Member since Dec 2006
34787 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 8:07 pm to
I don't understand this. If the court said that the suspensions weren't right and overturned them, then how can Goodell turn around and re-submit the same suspensions. He's not above the law. Someone clear this up for me because I totally don't get it.
Posted by kclsufan
Show Me
Member since Jun 2008
12092 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 8:10 pm to
quote:

I don't understand this. If the court said that the suspensions weren't right and overturned them, then how can Goodell turn around and re-submit the same suspensions. He's not above the law. Someone clear this up for me because I totally don't get it.

It wasn't a "court", it was a panel with everything still under the CBA.
Posted by JazzyJeff
Japan
Member since Sep 2006
3938 posts
Posted on 10/9/12 at 8:13 pm to
This all boils down to the Saints not stopping the "bounty" program when the league told them to; that's it.

For whatever reason the Saints brass decided to basically tell the league to 'frick off and mind your own business'

And so here we are.
first pageprev pagePage 1 of 3Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram